So I think I understand what's driving so many people nutz about this fate conversation. The fact that I say fate had a plan, so Desmond changed fate's plan. If things ended up differently, in a good way, THAT must have been their fate, right?
That's the whole thing, the idea and concept of "fate" and "free will" are so ambiguous and different people have different view on them. It's a difficult thing to argue. Perhaps if I didn't say "fate," but said "the will of the island" it would work better.
Though I think in Lost, the will of the island and the fate of the universe go together. It's like the island wanted Charlie to die from the arrow to the throat, but Desmond delayed his death, making Charlie's fate more significant. I think it's accurate to talk about fate as what is SUPPOSED to happen, which is also what the island (or Jacob and/or MIB) wants. Did Jacob want Widmore to have Ben kill baby Alex? Was she SUPPOSED to die? Was Danielle SUPPOSED to die? Maybe they were, but their fate was eventually delayed.
Thing is, when we try to talk about these things, we all have to be on the same page. Sometimes when I say fate I'm thinking one thing and other people thinking a completely different thing. We could just call one "fate," which is the plan of the island/universe/Jacob/MIB/Whatever and one the "ultimate fate," which is what ultimately happens as a result of our travelers delaying it. There can also be an idea of one's "individual fate", which would obviously be the fate of an individual.
I would say that the ultimate fate is what it always is, no do-overs. Yet it is the exposure to the 11 Hz light and time traveling that allows changes to the average "fate" to become the final "ultimate fate." You might call this an alternate universe, while I call it a changed path. In the process of changing "fate" to "ultimate fate," they are able to make peoples "individual fate" more significant.
Maybe the ultimate fate is decided collectively by Jacob and MIB. Maybe they have two sides of a certain power, like the light side and dark side of the force. Maybe, now that the MIB is in control, he will push his agenda of "fate" to become the destruction of humanity (as predicted in the Valenzetti equation). The losties will now have the ability to change the MIB's "fate" to be a much better "ultimate fate" in which humanity can survive. Maybe they can all show MIB the light side of the force so that he can change in the very end, just like Darth Vader.
That's the whole thing, the idea and concept of "fate" and "free will" are so ambiguous and different people have different view on them. It's a difficult thing to argue. Perhaps if I didn't say "fate," but said "the will of the island" it would work better.
Though I think in Lost, the will of the island and the fate of the universe go together. It's like the island wanted Charlie to die from the arrow to the throat, but Desmond delayed his death, making Charlie's fate more significant. I think it's accurate to talk about fate as what is SUPPOSED to happen, which is also what the island (or Jacob and/or MIB) wants. Did Jacob want Widmore to have Ben kill baby Alex? Was she SUPPOSED to die? Was Danielle SUPPOSED to die? Maybe they were, but their fate was eventually delayed.
Thing is, when we try to talk about these things, we all have to be on the same page. Sometimes when I say fate I'm thinking one thing and other people thinking a completely different thing. We could just call one "fate," which is the plan of the island/universe/Jacob/MIB/Whatever and one the "ultimate fate," which is what ultimately happens as a result of our travelers delaying it. There can also be an idea of one's "individual fate", which would obviously be the fate of an individual.
I would say that the ultimate fate is what it always is, no do-overs. Yet it is the exposure to the 11 Hz light and time traveling that allows changes to the average "fate" to become the final "ultimate fate." You might call this an alternate universe, while I call it a changed path. In the process of changing "fate" to "ultimate fate," they are able to make peoples "individual fate" more significant.
Maybe the ultimate fate is decided collectively by Jacob and MIB. Maybe they have two sides of a certain power, like the light side and dark side of the force. Maybe, now that the MIB is in control, he will push his agenda of "fate" to become the destruction of humanity (as predicted in the Valenzetti equation). The losties will now have the ability to change the MIB's "fate" to be a much better "ultimate fate" in which humanity can survive. Maybe they can all show MIB the light side of the force so that he can change in the very end, just like Darth Vader.
