I am not sure if this will turn out as a theory. It is more just my thinking out loud. Asking questions and giving my thoughts.
I will start with Charles Widmore (he won my heart in Jughead :))
In 1954 he was a 17 year old kid. So it means he was born in 1937. Born on the island or off?He is an Other. He speaks Latin. He is working with or for Richard. He said to locke they ruled peacfuly for 30 years. I am not jumping in conclusions here because of the thing what Miles said. 'It took him 20 years to find this place. I wouldn't hold my breath.' He said it in 2004.
2004 minus 20 equals 1984.
1984 minus 30 equals 1954
So is this mean that Charles was telling the truth to Locke? If so, he left the island in 1984.
First question. Who was the leader of the others from 1984 until 1992? We are missing these 8 years. 8 is this THE NUMBER?
If Charles wasn't the leader of the others and wasn't even on the island then who ordered the purge. We know it wasn't Ben. Or do we? In Cabin fever we had the conversation between Ben and Hurley.
Hurley asked Ben why did he kill all these people.
Ben: I didnt kill them. It wasnt my decision. It was their leaders.
Hurley: I thought you were their leader.
Ben: Not always.
So who was their leader at that point, before Ben took over? Richard? He lost one leader and we know they choose another from a very young age. So maybe he stepped in before someone else takes over. Or Ben lied? It wouldnt be the first time.
Next thing. If they were gassed to death then whats up with those holes in their heads? Was that just to be sure they are dead? Or was some other people dumped to that pit along with DI....
So Charles is off the island. None knows how Ben tricked him into leaving. He calls Ben 'boy' and I think it is because Ben was a kid somewhere in his early 20s when he tricked Widmore into leaving. And he told him WHAT. I know WHAT you are boy. I just cannot get pass that. It is stuck in my mind.
Now lets go back to the episode Eggtown I think. When Kate brings Miles to Ben and he is asking 3.2 for his silence. When Ben tells him he doesnt have acses to that kind of money Miles tells him: 'Dont treat me like I am one of them. Like I dont know WHAT you are!' Again with that WHAT? I want to know WHAT Ben is?
So, Widmore is trying to find the island for 20 years now.
With enough money and determination you can find anyone. ANYONE.
It bugs me. Charles Widmore has money. Charles Widmore grew up with the only person who knows how to find the island. Eloise Hawking. She is his sister or his lover. Or a very very very close friend. He funded her sons reaserch and took care of his lost girl Theresa. Why would he do that unless he is very close to Ellie. And the way they talked in Jughead seamed like a chat between brother and sister. So he is very very close to the one person who knows how to find the island. And he was the one sending Locke via Abaddon on a walkabout that led him eventually to the island. So he knew about 815. He knew about Ajira. He knew about the race and Desmond crashing on the island. He eventually sent freighter to the island. Yet not once he tried to go there by himself. WHY? What is preventing him? If he pushed the FDW it doesnt matter cause we saw ben and locke pushed it yet tehy are back. So whats up with Charles?
With enough money and determination you can find anyone. Ben is his primary objective. Not the island. well the island too but Ben first. so lets go back to ther conversation again.
Charles: Why are you here? To kill me?
Ben: You know that I cannot do that.
Charles: I know who you are, what you are boy. Everything you have you took it from me. That island is mine. Always was. it will be again.
Ben: But you will never find it.
Why he cannot kill him? I can think of 3 reasons.
1. He is already dead.
2. Island wont let him.
3. They are in a time loop and whatever happened happened.
If Island wont let him then Island is not done with Widmore yet. Then Widmore needs to do something good for the island before he dies.
I am clueless. But I think it is crucial for understanding the show. How did they meet and what went wrong between two of them. Charles sent freighter to the island in order to drag Ben out of it yet when Ben shows up at his flat he does nothing??? He finally has Ben. Lots of people died because of Widmore/Ben relationship yet now nothing he just went back to bed??? Hm...
When did you start sleeping with the bottle of whiskey by you bed?
When nightmares start.
What does it mean. He is having some lost memories like Desmond.
Is Charles special like Desmond is?
Richard Alpert
We know he existed in 1954. Juliette said: Richard was always here.
And that he is very old. I am wondering how much she knows and why the hell she didnt share a wee bit more. But its Lost..:)
He seemed as if he is not aware of time traveling. But if he was alwazs there then thats enough time to know alot. So he got to know about time traveling. But maybe I am wrong. So after 1954 on 30th of May in 1956 he went to witness Lockes birth. And he was pleased. Locke is special. He didnt lie. Again the Cabin fever. Emily Locke was a young girl. By her mothers reaction I would say under age. Maybe 18 years old or younger. The man she was dating was twice her age. Yet years later Anthony Cooper doesnt seem twice her age. But ok. So Richard saw Locke and decided to wait. Few years later he visited him again. locke was pretty small. So I will assume it was sometimes between 1962/1964 and Locke was about 7 year old. He saw a drawing on the wall. Black Smoke. He was pretty strange when he saw it. Pleased but yet it was something more to that scene. So we know Richard knows about the smoke in early 60s. Next we see him testing little Locke. I always found it strange, the objec! ts he picked. As if Locke was not the only one he was about to test. So what are the objects? We have:
1. The knife
2. The compass
3. Sand
4. Comic book
5. Basball glove???
6. Book of Laws
So Locke picked out the right object. Cause the knife really did belong to him. As far as we know (Locke without a knife is not Locke) Locke already has knife and the compass was Richards. He gave it to him in a first place. But from Richards point of view locke failed the test. Oh how Richard was wrong. So whats up with the other objects. Why these? So i will try to place them with right owners.
1. The compass SAID
2. Sand
3. Comic book HURLEY
4. Baseball glove JACK
5. Book of Laws SAWYER
Those are the people who amidiatley came to my mind when i saw the objects. Basball glove in particular because of THE RED SOX and Jack. Sawyer is always reading books and he doesnt care what type of book is it as long when it is a book. Coomick book was a reminder to Hurley and Walt but since Walt is not back on the island yet I am just placing it with the people who are still on the island. The sand is a trick. It could be Kate or Jin but sand doesnt remind of anyone only the island itself and those beaches. So what if the next thing we see is Richard giving the test to all of them. That would be cool. Cause now he knows that sawyer is from the future too and waiting for Locke. But I wouldnt hold my breath. I just thought it was cool.
So acording to richard locke failed the test. Richard wasnt pleased anymore. And he showed us his bad themper and lack of manners.
1974 alarm goes off and everyone goes balistic. They are affraid so much. Irational fear. or maybe no? And here I am thinking that the whole army or crazy armed people is going to come out of that woods or maybe smokey itself but no. only one man showed up and yet everyone is still hiding inside. The look on Juliette face was not promising either. The only man who came outside was Horace. My question is why are they all so affraid? Of one man? And then one of my favorite scenes ever apart from the scene with locke and young Widmore. That was classic! So Sawyer gets out and asks about the bomb? :) Richard didnt see that one coming. 20 years passed and now he is talking to another time traveler. Is he special too? And then the wierdest thing ever. He asks for Pauls body??? That reminded me of Daniel and Karl burried. In the middle of that chaos someone took time to put them underground. Sounds familiar? Why did Amy wanted to burry those two? And how come there is a pit with 10! 0 people in it wide open? Whats up with that? Still i think that was not the only thing Richard and Sawyer talked about. Now he knows that some other man is wihing the Dharma and not Dharma. Can that be valuable to Richard? Yes I think it can. And it is 1974. So now lets go again back to Cabin fever. We see teenage Locke. I bet you he is 18 years old. Richard now knows that Sawyer is waiting for Locke on the island. Last time Richard saw locke he looked a if he gave up on poor John. But now after Sawyer told him about Locke he decided to take a new shot. So he reached to Locke through his science teacher. But Locke wasnt interested. It wasnt his time yet. Was this because Richard wanted to bring Locke to Sawyer or did Sawyer once more helped Locke to become leader of the others in the future? I bet it is the second one. So once again, because of Sawyer Richard has faith in John. But Richard, is he really a good guy. I remembered the episode Not in Portland. And the scene w! here Juliette husband gets hit by a bus. Didnt see that one co! ming. Wa s that Richard? He wanted her badly (because she delivered the baby on the island,27 years ago) or was it Juliette herslef wishing something that came true. Similar to Walt. Is she special too?
Richard has a bad temper. He lied (Jughead) to Daniel when he said they killed 18 US soldiers and Miles said it was 40 of them killed just few weeks before. Why the lie? And he doesnt take no for an answer, in Juliettes case. He was really pushy. And from time to time I tend to think he is not human at all or he is dead, Locke style.
The main question is What is his relationship with Charles and Ellie?
And whats up with these Others. They like to dress up?
In 1954 we saw them waring soldier uniforms, later on they look like hillbilies. In 1954 they are living in military camps and then later on in DI houses. Where were they before all of that happened? Living in the woods. No houses, nothing. It is all property of DI. But yet Richard is always fresh shaved and so dressed up. Something is weird there. And why did Ellie leave the island? And how come Tom knew about the polar bears in the cages? When he was talking to Sawyer and made a coment 'It only took bear 2 hours' How he knew that if he wasnt member of DI? And how did bears survived if they gassed the whole place? Ah so many questions.
Benjamin Linus
So little Ben was born 32 miles of the Portland. Somewhere in the early 60s. 11 Years later he came to the island. That puts him in the mid 70s just enough for him to gain new friends. Why am I telling you this? I will explain later. So he is there. He got to know Jim la Fleur. He was a head of security. So back in 2004 when he saw Sawyers file he knew it was the same old Jim from his childhood. I assume he met the others as well. And thats how he always had a plan. He was driving me nuts in season 2, 3 and 4. I was like how the hell he kne all that. And now I am pretty disapointed. He was cheating! Cause he had the memories. It was his past. Losties future. He was always ten steps infront. But not anymore. i dont know how will it play out. but I am sure somehow he will found out they are from the future and how the story goes. From promo we saw that said is captured and today I saw The economist again, thanks to Beth. :) so lets go back to season 4 again, please. Ben/Said r! elationship is really 'special'. First he tortured him but then later on he didnt write his name on the list. I would if I was Ben just to get even. But he didnt. Said said 'the day I start trusting him it will be the day I sold my soul' but then in flash forward we do see said working for Ben of the island. Then something happened and we see Said again hating Ben guts. 'What ever he tells you do exact oposite' What changed? What happened again? So back to The Economist. After Kate, Said and miles get coned by Hurley Said is taken to the same jailspace with Ben. And then Ben starts his old school manipulation tricks. But then it hit me. It wasnt manipulation it was just him, remembering. Rememberin Said, back in 70s.
He said: 'WHATS THE POINT IN HAVING FRIENDS IF YOU CANNOT TRUST THEM?'
At the time I thought he was refering to Locke and Hurley. But no. Ben is still ten steps ahead. He is yet again locked in with Said and he wants to tell him that he considered him a friend but he was wrong. Cause he couldnt trust him. He will try to help him but something will go wrong. Said will betray his trust his friendship. And when you are a young boy it can have a great effect on your life and it can cause damage in your relationship with people in the future. But still i dont believe that that was the thing which turned Ben around from that sweet little boy to this cold calculated man years later. But the question is will Said realize that this young boy is the same man he will torture 30 years from now? I vote yes. And lets define irony! Now I believe we need to watch Lost backwards in order to understand some things better like this sentence above. So Ben finds out his future somehow and all he has to do is wait. Wait for them to crash again. And everything starts! all over. But how will he find out all the details? That remains a secret. If I refer to my theory about Sawyer being a Jacob then maybe thats how. (Regarding that I remembered something else. Right after Lockes group gets separated from Jacks, Hurley is still upset about Charlies death so Sawyer comes to him wanting to help him in some way but Hurley says no, he is fine. Then Sawyer says something weird. He said: If you need me just shout. A minute later Hurley gets lost and starts shouting and the cabin just apeared in front of him. Jacob summoned him. How weird is that? )
This is enough for now. I will continue this some other time if I have something else to say. i dont want it to be too long cause I know I 'hate' long theories.
Help me get the answers.
JoeySlater22, Andrew Sparks, Beth and Locke4Good lets share. :)
Monika Theory by Mo Fyaah
I will start with Charles Widmore (he won my heart in Jughead :))
In 1954 he was a 17 year old kid. So it means he was born in 1937. Born on the island or off?He is an Other. He speaks Latin. He is working with or for Richard. He said to locke they ruled peacfuly for 30 years. I am not jumping in conclusions here because of the thing what Miles said. 'It took him 20 years to find this place. I wouldn't hold my breath.' He said it in 2004.
2004 minus 20 equals 1984.
1984 minus 30 equals 1954
So is this mean that Charles was telling the truth to Locke? If so, he left the island in 1984.
First question. Who was the leader of the others from 1984 until 1992? We are missing these 8 years. 8 is this THE NUMBER?
If Charles wasn't the leader of the others and wasn't even on the island then who ordered the purge. We know it wasn't Ben. Or do we? In Cabin fever we had the conversation between Ben and Hurley.
Hurley asked Ben why did he kill all these people.
Ben: I didnt kill them. It wasnt my decision. It was their leaders.
Hurley: I thought you were their leader.
Ben: Not always.
So who was their leader at that point, before Ben took over? Richard? He lost one leader and we know they choose another from a very young age. So maybe he stepped in before someone else takes over. Or Ben lied? It wouldnt be the first time.
Next thing. If they were gassed to death then whats up with those holes in their heads? Was that just to be sure they are dead? Or was some other people dumped to that pit along with DI....
So Charles is off the island. None knows how Ben tricked him into leaving. He calls Ben 'boy' and I think it is because Ben was a kid somewhere in his early 20s when he tricked Widmore into leaving. And he told him WHAT. I know WHAT you are boy. I just cannot get pass that. It is stuck in my mind.
Now lets go back to the episode Eggtown I think. When Kate brings Miles to Ben and he is asking 3.2 for his silence. When Ben tells him he doesnt have acses to that kind of money Miles tells him: 'Dont treat me like I am one of them. Like I dont know WHAT you are!' Again with that WHAT? I want to know WHAT Ben is?
So, Widmore is trying to find the island for 20 years now.
With enough money and determination you can find anyone. ANYONE.
It bugs me. Charles Widmore has money. Charles Widmore grew up with the only person who knows how to find the island. Eloise Hawking. She is his sister or his lover. Or a very very very close friend. He funded her sons reaserch and took care of his lost girl Theresa. Why would he do that unless he is very close to Ellie. And the way they talked in Jughead seamed like a chat between brother and sister. So he is very very close to the one person who knows how to find the island. And he was the one sending Locke via Abaddon on a walkabout that led him eventually to the island. So he knew about 815. He knew about Ajira. He knew about the race and Desmond crashing on the island. He eventually sent freighter to the island. Yet not once he tried to go there by himself. WHY? What is preventing him? If he pushed the FDW it doesnt matter cause we saw ben and locke pushed it yet tehy are back. So whats up with Charles?
With enough money and determination you can find anyone. Ben is his primary objective. Not the island. well the island too but Ben first. so lets go back to ther conversation again.
Charles: Why are you here? To kill me?
Ben: You know that I cannot do that.
Charles: I know who you are, what you are boy. Everything you have you took it from me. That island is mine. Always was. it will be again.
Ben: But you will never find it.
Why he cannot kill him? I can think of 3 reasons.
1. He is already dead.
2. Island wont let him.
3. They are in a time loop and whatever happened happened.
If Island wont let him then Island is not done with Widmore yet. Then Widmore needs to do something good for the island before he dies.
I am clueless. But I think it is crucial for understanding the show. How did they meet and what went wrong between two of them. Charles sent freighter to the island in order to drag Ben out of it yet when Ben shows up at his flat he does nothing??? He finally has Ben. Lots of people died because of Widmore/Ben relationship yet now nothing he just went back to bed??? Hm...
When did you start sleeping with the bottle of whiskey by you bed?
When nightmares start.
What does it mean. He is having some lost memories like Desmond.
Is Charles special like Desmond is?
Richard Alpert
We know he existed in 1954. Juliette said: Richard was always here.
And that he is very old. I am wondering how much she knows and why the hell she didnt share a wee bit more. But its Lost..:)
He seemed as if he is not aware of time traveling. But if he was alwazs there then thats enough time to know alot. So he got to know about time traveling. But maybe I am wrong. So after 1954 on 30th of May in 1956 he went to witness Lockes birth. And he was pleased. Locke is special. He didnt lie. Again the Cabin fever. Emily Locke was a young girl. By her mothers reaction I would say under age. Maybe 18 years old or younger. The man she was dating was twice her age. Yet years later Anthony Cooper doesnt seem twice her age. But ok. So Richard saw Locke and decided to wait. Few years later he visited him again. locke was pretty small. So I will assume it was sometimes between 1962/1964 and Locke was about 7 year old. He saw a drawing on the wall. Black Smoke. He was pretty strange when he saw it. Pleased but yet it was something more to that scene. So we know Richard knows about the smoke in early 60s. Next we see him testing little Locke. I always found it strange, the objec! ts he picked. As if Locke was not the only one he was about to test. So what are the objects? We have:
1. The knife
2. The compass
3. Sand
4. Comic book
5. Basball glove???
6. Book of Laws
So Locke picked out the right object. Cause the knife really did belong to him. As far as we know (Locke without a knife is not Locke) Locke already has knife and the compass was Richards. He gave it to him in a first place. But from Richards point of view locke failed the test. Oh how Richard was wrong. So whats up with the other objects. Why these? So i will try to place them with right owners.
1. The compass SAID
2. Sand
3. Comic book HURLEY
4. Baseball glove JACK
5. Book of Laws SAWYER
Those are the people who amidiatley came to my mind when i saw the objects. Basball glove in particular because of THE RED SOX and Jack. Sawyer is always reading books and he doesnt care what type of book is it as long when it is a book. Coomick book was a reminder to Hurley and Walt but since Walt is not back on the island yet I am just placing it with the people who are still on the island. The sand is a trick. It could be Kate or Jin but sand doesnt remind of anyone only the island itself and those beaches. So what if the next thing we see is Richard giving the test to all of them. That would be cool. Cause now he knows that sawyer is from the future too and waiting for Locke. But I wouldnt hold my breath. I just thought it was cool.
So acording to richard locke failed the test. Richard wasnt pleased anymore. And he showed us his bad themper and lack of manners.
1974 alarm goes off and everyone goes balistic. They are affraid so much. Irational fear. or maybe no? And here I am thinking that the whole army or crazy armed people is going to come out of that woods or maybe smokey itself but no. only one man showed up and yet everyone is still hiding inside. The look on Juliette face was not promising either. The only man who came outside was Horace. My question is why are they all so affraid? Of one man? And then one of my favorite scenes ever apart from the scene with locke and young Widmore. That was classic! So Sawyer gets out and asks about the bomb? :) Richard didnt see that one coming. 20 years passed and now he is talking to another time traveler. Is he special too? And then the wierdest thing ever. He asks for Pauls body??? That reminded me of Daniel and Karl burried. In the middle of that chaos someone took time to put them underground. Sounds familiar? Why did Amy wanted to burry those two? And how come there is a pit with 10! 0 people in it wide open? Whats up with that? Still i think that was not the only thing Richard and Sawyer talked about. Now he knows that some other man is wihing the Dharma and not Dharma. Can that be valuable to Richard? Yes I think it can. And it is 1974. So now lets go again back to Cabin fever. We see teenage Locke. I bet you he is 18 years old. Richard now knows that Sawyer is waiting for Locke on the island. Last time Richard saw locke he looked a if he gave up on poor John. But now after Sawyer told him about Locke he decided to take a new shot. So he reached to Locke through his science teacher. But Locke wasnt interested. It wasnt his time yet. Was this because Richard wanted to bring Locke to Sawyer or did Sawyer once more helped Locke to become leader of the others in the future? I bet it is the second one. So once again, because of Sawyer Richard has faith in John. But Richard, is he really a good guy. I remembered the episode Not in Portland. And the scene w! here Juliette husband gets hit by a bus. Didnt see that one co! ming. Wa s that Richard? He wanted her badly (because she delivered the baby on the island,27 years ago) or was it Juliette herslef wishing something that came true. Similar to Walt. Is she special too?
Richard has a bad temper. He lied (Jughead) to Daniel when he said they killed 18 US soldiers and Miles said it was 40 of them killed just few weeks before. Why the lie? And he doesnt take no for an answer, in Juliettes case. He was really pushy. And from time to time I tend to think he is not human at all or he is dead, Locke style.
The main question is What is his relationship with Charles and Ellie?
And whats up with these Others. They like to dress up?
In 1954 we saw them waring soldier uniforms, later on they look like hillbilies. In 1954 they are living in military camps and then later on in DI houses. Where were they before all of that happened? Living in the woods. No houses, nothing. It is all property of DI. But yet Richard is always fresh shaved and so dressed up. Something is weird there. And why did Ellie leave the island? And how come Tom knew about the polar bears in the cages? When he was talking to Sawyer and made a coment 'It only took bear 2 hours' How he knew that if he wasnt member of DI? And how did bears survived if they gassed the whole place? Ah so many questions.
Benjamin Linus
So little Ben was born 32 miles of the Portland. Somewhere in the early 60s. 11 Years later he came to the island. That puts him in the mid 70s just enough for him to gain new friends. Why am I telling you this? I will explain later. So he is there. He got to know Jim la Fleur. He was a head of security. So back in 2004 when he saw Sawyers file he knew it was the same old Jim from his childhood. I assume he met the others as well. And thats how he always had a plan. He was driving me nuts in season 2, 3 and 4. I was like how the hell he kne all that. And now I am pretty disapointed. He was cheating! Cause he had the memories. It was his past. Losties future. He was always ten steps infront. But not anymore. i dont know how will it play out. but I am sure somehow he will found out they are from the future and how the story goes. From promo we saw that said is captured and today I saw The economist again, thanks to Beth. :) so lets go back to season 4 again, please. Ben/Said r! elationship is really 'special'. First he tortured him but then later on he didnt write his name on the list. I would if I was Ben just to get even. But he didnt. Said said 'the day I start trusting him it will be the day I sold my soul' but then in flash forward we do see said working for Ben of the island. Then something happened and we see Said again hating Ben guts. 'What ever he tells you do exact oposite' What changed? What happened again? So back to The Economist. After Kate, Said and miles get coned by Hurley Said is taken to the same jailspace with Ben. And then Ben starts his old school manipulation tricks. But then it hit me. It wasnt manipulation it was just him, remembering. Rememberin Said, back in 70s.
He said: 'WHATS THE POINT IN HAVING FRIENDS IF YOU CANNOT TRUST THEM?'
At the time I thought he was refering to Locke and Hurley. But no. Ben is still ten steps ahead. He is yet again locked in with Said and he wants to tell him that he considered him a friend but he was wrong. Cause he couldnt trust him. He will try to help him but something will go wrong. Said will betray his trust his friendship. And when you are a young boy it can have a great effect on your life and it can cause damage in your relationship with people in the future. But still i dont believe that that was the thing which turned Ben around from that sweet little boy to this cold calculated man years later. But the question is will Said realize that this young boy is the same man he will torture 30 years from now? I vote yes. And lets define irony! Now I believe we need to watch Lost backwards in order to understand some things better like this sentence above. So Ben finds out his future somehow and all he has to do is wait. Wait for them to crash again. And everything starts! all over. But how will he find out all the details? That remains a secret. If I refer to my theory about Sawyer being a Jacob then maybe thats how. (Regarding that I remembered something else. Right after Lockes group gets separated from Jacks, Hurley is still upset about Charlies death so Sawyer comes to him wanting to help him in some way but Hurley says no, he is fine. Then Sawyer says something weird. He said: If you need me just shout. A minute later Hurley gets lost and starts shouting and the cabin just apeared in front of him. Jacob summoned him. How weird is that? )
This is enough for now. I will continue this some other time if I have something else to say. i dont want it to be too long cause I know I 'hate' long theories.
Help me get the answers.
JoeySlater22, Andrew Sparks, Beth and Locke4Good lets share. :)
Monika Theory by Mo Fyaah
