I am interested in the "doubling" "cloning" or "twinning" of characters on Lost. In my previous post, for example, I proposed the idea that Jack was twinned at the end of last season when the island "moved." In this post, I am considering if Darlton's joke about a "zombie season" is a nod to the idea of "philosophical zombies." Perhaps the island can twin people, making a duplicate that acts exactly like the original but has no soul, or no conscious experience. If a super-sophisticated computer system can gather enough data about a person about a person from the outside (smoke monster?) conceivably, friends and family wouldn't be able to tell which person was the "real" one and which one was the zombie projection. An Australian philosopher (Australia!), David Chalmers, who has influenced the Watchowski brothers, has proposed the idea that if a system contains enough information, it is conscious. In other wor! ds, if the Island is some kind of alien-tech supercomputer, that gathers and processes MASSIVE amounts of data, and runs zombie simulations, then it is conscious. I'll come back to this idea in a minute, but first a bit more about zombies.
I was looking at this the other day: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/
It's about "philosophical zombies" something I had never heard of before. If you know lots about this, and I am butchering it, please let me know in the comments. If you haven't hear about this before either, here it is in a nutshell:
" A philosophical zombie is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except that it lacks conscious experience, qualia [qualia are semi-subjective perceptual qualifiers like "redness" and "softness"], sentience, or sapience. When a zombie is poked with a sharp object, for example, it does not feel any pain. However, it behaves exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch" and recoil from the stimulus), but it does not actually have the experience of pain as a putative 'normal' person does." Philosophers use zombies to do thought experiments about the nature of consciousness. They are divided on how useful they are for philosophy, but they may have some relevance for the themes in Lost.
Could we have seen some zombies already on Lost? Perhaps Ben's mother, Eko's brother, and Charlie, are zombies, for example. They aren't zombies in the traditional sense, ie. the re-animated corpses, but rather they are philosophical zombies, perfect physical duplicates of the original who lack a soul and a mind.
If this is the case, the show could explore some cool ideas. If a zombie, or duplicate dies, does it matter? Should we care? Do human beings have consciousness or souls? For example, the is the Charlie that visits Hurley in the nut house the real Charlie? Is there something other than the physical world? What does it mean to be conscious? Basically, exploring the philosophy around what's known as "physicalism."
The wiki on philosophical zombies refers to the following:
"The zombie argument against physicalism in general was most famously developed in detail by David Chalmers in The Conscious Mind (1996)[the guy who influenced the Watchowski bros].
[Important part for LOST]--------> "According to Chalmers, one can coherently conceive of an entire zombie world: a world physically indiscernible from our world, but entirely lacking conscious experience. In such a world, the counterpart of every being that is conscious in our world would be a p-zombie. The argument in the book is:
1. If physicalism is true, then it is not possible for there to be a world in which all the physical facts are the same as those of the actual world but in which there are additional facts. (This is because, according to physicalism, all the facts are fully determined by the physical facts; so any world that is physically indistinguishable from our world is entirely indistinguishable from our world.)
2. But there is a possible world in which all the physical facts are the same as those of our world but in which there are additional facts. (For example, it is possible that there is a world exactly like ours in every physical respect, but in it everyone lacks certain mental states, namely any phenomenal experiences or qualia. The people there look and act just like people in the actual world, but they don't feel anything; when one gets shot, for example, he yells out as if he is in pain, but he doesn't feel any pain.)"
3. Therefore, we can't say for sure whether physicalism is true.
Okay, getting back to Lost, Chalmer's ideas about a second world, physically indistinguishable from this one, but where there is only physical substance (no soul, no consciousness, nothing "ineffable), make me think of Ben's comment to Widmore about "changing the rules." If the island is a second world, perhaps the program in runs upon can be altered.
We've seen stories that explore the ideas that come out of the idea of reality, and about our interface with group minds. For example, The Matrix and Star Trek TNG. I don't think Lost is going to be a re-hash of the Matrix, which explored the idea of a second, "non-real" world, that, at first, was indistinguishable from "reality". Nor do I think it will explore the ideas from Picard becoming Loqutus of Borg, where we see the horror of a human/machine hybrid, where a man looses his independent mind to the group mind. However, I do think the philosophical underpinnings of Lost are similar and we've already come across some of these ideas on the show.
So far, Lost seems to side with the idea that there is "something more" to people. Locke, Rose and Eko, for example, come to believe in destiny and a spirit that carries on. They would believe that the zombie is not the original, but that the island (whether it is a computer or not) has a mind. They believe that a substance has physical, mental and spiritual properties. As I mentioned earlier, Chalmers argues elsewhere that any "information containing system" is conscious and that all our minds are interlinked -- this is the idea called "panpsychicism" Jack and Bernard, seem to think that there is nothing beyond there here and now. They might argue that the zombie is the same as the real thing. They would deny that the island (if it is a computer) has a mind. They think that a physical substance only has physical properties. They are the "physicalists."
It seems the philosophical conflict at the core of the show could be the following:
"Physicalism" version of Lost: All there is, is the physical world. There is no mind and no soul, a perfect physical replica of a person generated by the smoke monster (a zombie) is exactly the same as the person replicated. In essence, (because there is no essence) the zombie IS that person. Therefore, the island, by scanning people and duplicating them, gives them everlasting life.
"Panpsychicism" version of Lost:
The island's is alive and conscious because it contains information. It's mind is interlinked with the minds of everyone on the island. Time and space does not separate us from the universal mind. Even as our physical bodies disappear, our minds and souls carry on. The zombie-making smoke monster is an abomination, because it makes physical beings with no soul and no mind. These mindless, soulless things should be feared and perhaps destroyed. The beautiful mind and group consciousness of the island is not the same as the smoke monster.
Thank you for reading this far and considering these ideas. : )
Theory by Ginger Doggie
I was looking at this the other day: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/
It's about "philosophical zombies" something I had never heard of before. If you know lots about this, and I am butchering it, please let me know in the comments. If you haven't hear about this before either, here it is in a nutshell:
" A philosophical zombie is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except that it lacks conscious experience, qualia [qualia are semi-subjective perceptual qualifiers like "redness" and "softness"], sentience, or sapience. When a zombie is poked with a sharp object, for example, it does not feel any pain. However, it behaves exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch" and recoil from the stimulus), but it does not actually have the experience of pain as a putative 'normal' person does." Philosophers use zombies to do thought experiments about the nature of consciousness. They are divided on how useful they are for philosophy, but they may have some relevance for the themes in Lost.
Could we have seen some zombies already on Lost? Perhaps Ben's mother, Eko's brother, and Charlie, are zombies, for example. They aren't zombies in the traditional sense, ie. the re-animated corpses, but rather they are philosophical zombies, perfect physical duplicates of the original who lack a soul and a mind.
If this is the case, the show could explore some cool ideas. If a zombie, or duplicate dies, does it matter? Should we care? Do human beings have consciousness or souls? For example, the is the Charlie that visits Hurley in the nut house the real Charlie? Is there something other than the physical world? What does it mean to be conscious? Basically, exploring the philosophy around what's known as "physicalism."
The wiki on philosophical zombies refers to the following:
"The zombie argument against physicalism in general was most famously developed in detail by David Chalmers in The Conscious Mind (1996)[the guy who influenced the Watchowski bros].
[Important part for LOST]--------> "According to Chalmers, one can coherently conceive of an entire zombie world: a world physically indiscernible from our world, but entirely lacking conscious experience. In such a world, the counterpart of every being that is conscious in our world would be a p-zombie. The argument in the book is:
1. If physicalism is true, then it is not possible for there to be a world in which all the physical facts are the same as those of the actual world but in which there are additional facts. (This is because, according to physicalism, all the facts are fully determined by the physical facts; so any world that is physically indistinguishable from our world is entirely indistinguishable from our world.)
2. But there is a possible world in which all the physical facts are the same as those of our world but in which there are additional facts. (For example, it is possible that there is a world exactly like ours in every physical respect, but in it everyone lacks certain mental states, namely any phenomenal experiences or qualia. The people there look and act just like people in the actual world, but they don't feel anything; when one gets shot, for example, he yells out as if he is in pain, but he doesn't feel any pain.)"
3. Therefore, we can't say for sure whether physicalism is true.
Okay, getting back to Lost, Chalmer's ideas about a second world, physically indistinguishable from this one, but where there is only physical substance (no soul, no consciousness, nothing "ineffable), make me think of Ben's comment to Widmore about "changing the rules." If the island is a second world, perhaps the program in runs upon can be altered.
We've seen stories that explore the ideas that come out of the idea of reality, and about our interface with group minds. For example, The Matrix and Star Trek TNG. I don't think Lost is going to be a re-hash of the Matrix, which explored the idea of a second, "non-real" world, that, at first, was indistinguishable from "reality". Nor do I think it will explore the ideas from Picard becoming Loqutus of Borg, where we see the horror of a human/machine hybrid, where a man looses his independent mind to the group mind. However, I do think the philosophical underpinnings of Lost are similar and we've already come across some of these ideas on the show.
So far, Lost seems to side with the idea that there is "something more" to people. Locke, Rose and Eko, for example, come to believe in destiny and a spirit that carries on. They would believe that the zombie is not the original, but that the island (whether it is a computer or not) has a mind. They believe that a substance has physical, mental and spiritual properties. As I mentioned earlier, Chalmers argues elsewhere that any "information containing system" is conscious and that all our minds are interlinked -- this is the idea called "panpsychicism" Jack and Bernard, seem to think that there is nothing beyond there here and now. They might argue that the zombie is the same as the real thing. They would deny that the island (if it is a computer) has a mind. They think that a physical substance only has physical properties. They are the "physicalists."
It seems the philosophical conflict at the core of the show could be the following:
"Physicalism" version of Lost: All there is, is the physical world. There is no mind and no soul, a perfect physical replica of a person generated by the smoke monster (a zombie) is exactly the same as the person replicated. In essence, (because there is no essence) the zombie IS that person. Therefore, the island, by scanning people and duplicating them, gives them everlasting life.
"Panpsychicism" version of Lost:
The island's is alive and conscious because it contains information. It's mind is interlinked with the minds of everyone on the island. Time and space does not separate us from the universal mind. Even as our physical bodies disappear, our minds and souls carry on. The zombie-making smoke monster is an abomination, because it makes physical beings with no soul and no mind. These mindless, soulless things should be feared and perhaps destroyed. The beautiful mind and group consciousness of the island is not the same as the smoke monster.
Thank you for reading this far and considering these ideas. : )
Theory by Ginger Doggie
