Free Will vs. Whatever Happened, Happened
(or, how Free Will = Destiny)
=========================================
by Kabungo
"Free Will" and "Whatever Happened, Happened" peacefully co-exist with each other.
How is this possible?
Let's examine Jack.
Jack was told by Daniel that people have Free Will. They are the Variables in his mysterious Time Travel equations.
I tend to agree with him. Jack can do whatever he pleases at any point in time.
Daniel told Jack that, when it comes down to it, stopping "The Incident" will prevent Flight 815 from crashing.
I agree that No Incident = No 815 Crash. However, I don't think it will be stopped.
You see, Jack can now take his Free Will and decide what to do. He's not bound by any force which is controlling him. He can weigh his options and make his own decision based on the knowledge he currently possesses. He can choose to let things happen. He can choose to TRY and prevent the incident.
However, let's assume that Jack DOES blow up Jughead, thus preventing "The Incident" from occurring. This means that 815 never crashes. That means that Jack never crashed on the Island. He never gets rescued by a Freighter, lives off-island for three years, comes back on an Ajira flight, and time travels into 1977. Which means he's not there to prevent 'The Incident' from happening.
And so it happens.
And Jack ends up crashing on the island.
He didn't "change" anything.
But that's because there was nothing for him to change. The ONLY things Jack can control are his OWN actions. HE has Free Will. He Controls Himself.
However,
He hasn't made any of those actions yet, so he can't CHANGE what he's about to do, since they haven't been made yet. He's got free will, but he's only got one shot at it.
Whatever Happened, Happened. But from Jack's perspective, what he's about to do to prevent The Incident HASN'T happened yet, so he's yet to make these choices.
BUT, since we know the future, WE know Jack WILL fail, and The Incident WILL happen, or else he wouldn't exist in 1977 right now.
Jack has Free Will. He will make choices about what to do. And I'll bet ya that he's the cause of The Incident.
Now, if Jack was able to go back in time and replace himself AFTER making his OWN actions, then yes, Whatever Happened, Happened would fall apart. But he cannot change his own actions because he hasn't made them yet. He doesn't know what what he does will cause The Incident, so he's blindly going to try to stop said Incident from occurring. It won't be until after he's gone and done it that he'll realize that he couldn't change the EVENTS from happening. And now that he made his choices, he can't REDO them. You don't get a second chance.
To sum it all up: Free Will exists, but you only have one shot at it, and once you do something, it's happened. You can't go back and change your own actions.
It doesn't matter WHEN in time you take those actions, you can never re-do them.
Which means, quite frankly .... Free Will = Destiny.
Think about it. A person can make an infinite amount of choices at any given point in their life. BUT, they'll only always make ONE choice. And they can never go back and CHANGE what they did, cause it already happened.
Now, you examine this life of a single person constantly making choices. It follows a single path. As an outsider advocating for Free Will, you might say "Well, at any given time person X could have done Thing Y differently". That's true. BUT, they didn't. AND, they can't change it. AND, if we set up the scenario exactly the same and run it again, the same thing would happen again. Therefore, it APPEARS as if this person is DESTINED to follow this one path over and over and over again, and thus you have people shouting "Destiny!".
Free Will = Destiny. It all depends on how you look at it.
To bring it back around to LOST .... Jack's gonna fail. The Incident will happen. 815 will crash on the Island. Period.
(or, how Free Will = Destiny)
=========================================
by Kabungo
"Free Will" and "Whatever Happened, Happened" peacefully co-exist with each other.
How is this possible?
Let's examine Jack.
Jack was told by Daniel that people have Free Will. They are the Variables in his mysterious Time Travel equations.
I tend to agree with him. Jack can do whatever he pleases at any point in time.
Daniel told Jack that, when it comes down to it, stopping "The Incident" will prevent Flight 815 from crashing.
I agree that No Incident = No 815 Crash. However, I don't think it will be stopped.
You see, Jack can now take his Free Will and decide what to do. He's not bound by any force which is controlling him. He can weigh his options and make his own decision based on the knowledge he currently possesses. He can choose to let things happen. He can choose to TRY and prevent the incident.
However, let's assume that Jack DOES blow up Jughead, thus preventing "The Incident" from occurring. This means that 815 never crashes. That means that Jack never crashed on the Island. He never gets rescued by a Freighter, lives off-island for three years, comes back on an Ajira flight, and time travels into 1977. Which means he's not there to prevent 'The Incident' from happening.
And so it happens.
And Jack ends up crashing on the island.
He didn't "change" anything.
But that's because there was nothing for him to change. The ONLY things Jack can control are his OWN actions. HE has Free Will. He Controls Himself.
However,
He hasn't made any of those actions yet, so he can't CHANGE what he's about to do, since they haven't been made yet. He's got free will, but he's only got one shot at it.
Whatever Happened, Happened. But from Jack's perspective, what he's about to do to prevent The Incident HASN'T happened yet, so he's yet to make these choices.
BUT, since we know the future, WE know Jack WILL fail, and The Incident WILL happen, or else he wouldn't exist in 1977 right now.
Jack has Free Will. He will make choices about what to do. And I'll bet ya that he's the cause of The Incident.
Now, if Jack was able to go back in time and replace himself AFTER making his OWN actions, then yes, Whatever Happened, Happened would fall apart. But he cannot change his own actions because he hasn't made them yet. He doesn't know what what he does will cause The Incident, so he's blindly going to try to stop said Incident from occurring. It won't be until after he's gone and done it that he'll realize that he couldn't change the EVENTS from happening. And now that he made his choices, he can't REDO them. You don't get a second chance.
To sum it all up: Free Will exists, but you only have one shot at it, and once you do something, it's happened. You can't go back and change your own actions.
It doesn't matter WHEN in time you take those actions, you can never re-do them.
Which means, quite frankly .... Free Will = Destiny.
Think about it. A person can make an infinite amount of choices at any given point in their life. BUT, they'll only always make ONE choice. And they can never go back and CHANGE what they did, cause it already happened.
Now, you examine this life of a single person constantly making choices. It follows a single path. As an outsider advocating for Free Will, you might say "Well, at any given time person X could have done Thing Y differently". That's true. BUT, they didn't. AND, they can't change it. AND, if we set up the scenario exactly the same and run it again, the same thing would happen again. Therefore, it APPEARS as if this person is DESTINED to follow this one path over and over and over again, and thus you have people shouting "Destiny!".
Free Will = Destiny. It all depends on how you look at it.
To bring it back around to LOST .... Jack's gonna fail. The Incident will happen. 815 will crash on the Island. Period.
