Have been thinking alot about this stuff, and I think that the whole, whatever happened, happened, and the rule of not being able to change the past...I think the outcome is the same but you can change certain events leading to the outcome.I think that dead is dead, like you can't save someone from dying, if they are meant to die, they die, but it may not be the same way. Like Ben, I don't think he can be killed in the past because it isn't his time to die yet. So Sayid can shoot him, even though that didn't originally happen in the past, but he won't succeed. Just like when Michael was trying to kill himself. It wasn't his time yet. Desmond kept trying to save Charlie, but he couldn't because Charlie was going to die, either way. Rousseau and her crew met the same end, but different events led to it.
So, is Ben trying to manipulate the past? Is he sending Sayid to the island in the past to change the events (shooting Ben leads Ben to not trust the others, therefore he doesn't help the others with the gassing of Dharma.) Or, does another Lostie befriend Ben and tell him Sayid was not an other, so Ben does not change? Either way, Ben does not die.
Also, I was reading everyone talking about Desmond being special, so I watched the episodes over that were Desmond-centric, and the one after the hatch explosion - he hits his head on the island and wakes up in the past with Penny, before he asked her to marry him and he meets Ms. Hawking. He sees Charlie and remembers things about the island - which from our viewpoint is his future - but what if it was his past and he was just remembering his past? Ms. Hawking tells him, this isn't right, you don't ask Penny to marry you, you go to the island and push a button. Desmond wakes up back on the island after the explosion and wants to go back to do it over again, but he can't - small events may change but the outcome is always the same, no matter what.
Charles Widmore says he started drinking at night when the nightmares started. Is Charles remembering things from his past - things that happened on the island that he doesn't think happened yet and that we haven't seen - but in reality are in his past? I don't think the island shares the same time space that real time does, so when you are on the island, you think you are experiencing time in the same manner as off island, but your are not. So, when Kate, Jack, etc. returned, they told Sawyer and Jin they had been gone three years - Sawyer thinks that he has been with Dharma three years, but that is just his own perspective.
To try to explain how Ben knows so much, maybe he has the ability to remember the past, instead of flashes or dreams, he remembers. So, he knows that the Losties were on the island in the 70's, it was in his past, but 70's Ben doesn't know because that is his future. So, when adult Ben sees a plane crashing on the island - he knows this is the event that he heard about in his past from Sayid - when Sayid told Oldham who he was, he mentioned both planes that crashed. So Ben is just living his life, waiting for this plane to crash.
Hurley and the numbers - was that all really coincidence or did Hurley play those numbers in 2004 because they were in his past from 70's Dharma island? He just didn't remember.
I think the problem that everyone runs into is trying to assign a timeline on the island - I don't think there is a time line. Charles asks Locke - How long has it been since you met me? 4 days for John was 30 years for Charles. I don't think that events that occur are locked in, just the outcome. Charlotte died because she was meant to die, no matter what Daniel did - so Daniel met Charlotte as a child, realized who she was and tried to become her constant. She remembered him right before she died, but it didn't matter because she was meant to die.
I am most interested in the missing pieces of Ben's life leading up to the gassing of Dharma....how did an abused kid go from just wanting to get out of his situation to helping someone kill all those people. I just want to scoop him up and take care of him, bringing Sayid sandwiches and crying when Roger was abusive....I think we are going to learn that Ben is good and someone else is pulling his strings. If you think about it, he is driven from the beginning by seeing his dead mother and trying to runaway from his abusive drunk father. Then he assists Sayid in escape because he thinks Sayid can get him to a better place (the others - his mother) - and as an adult the first time we see an evil side to Ben is when he murders his father. He admits that it wasn't his idea to kill all those people, someone else made that decision. He wasn't the leader of the others at that point. What kept Ben on the island? Why didn't he just hop a sub back to Portland? What does he ha! ve against the Losties? Unless, one of them made the decision to gas Dharma? I hope we get to know what happened between now and the gassing. I think that will answer a lot of questions.
In conclusion, I still don't know what is going on. But my theory is that our perception of island time is way off. Theory by Pisces74
So, is Ben trying to manipulate the past? Is he sending Sayid to the island in the past to change the events (shooting Ben leads Ben to not trust the others, therefore he doesn't help the others with the gassing of Dharma.) Or, does another Lostie befriend Ben and tell him Sayid was not an other, so Ben does not change? Either way, Ben does not die.
Also, I was reading everyone talking about Desmond being special, so I watched the episodes over that were Desmond-centric, and the one after the hatch explosion - he hits his head on the island and wakes up in the past with Penny, before he asked her to marry him and he meets Ms. Hawking. He sees Charlie and remembers things about the island - which from our viewpoint is his future - but what if it was his past and he was just remembering his past? Ms. Hawking tells him, this isn't right, you don't ask Penny to marry you, you go to the island and push a button. Desmond wakes up back on the island after the explosion and wants to go back to do it over again, but he can't - small events may change but the outcome is always the same, no matter what.
Charles Widmore says he started drinking at night when the nightmares started. Is Charles remembering things from his past - things that happened on the island that he doesn't think happened yet and that we haven't seen - but in reality are in his past? I don't think the island shares the same time space that real time does, so when you are on the island, you think you are experiencing time in the same manner as off island, but your are not. So, when Kate, Jack, etc. returned, they told Sawyer and Jin they had been gone three years - Sawyer thinks that he has been with Dharma three years, but that is just his own perspective.
To try to explain how Ben knows so much, maybe he has the ability to remember the past, instead of flashes or dreams, he remembers. So, he knows that the Losties were on the island in the 70's, it was in his past, but 70's Ben doesn't know because that is his future. So, when adult Ben sees a plane crashing on the island - he knows this is the event that he heard about in his past from Sayid - when Sayid told Oldham who he was, he mentioned both planes that crashed. So Ben is just living his life, waiting for this plane to crash.
Hurley and the numbers - was that all really coincidence or did Hurley play those numbers in 2004 because they were in his past from 70's Dharma island? He just didn't remember.
I think the problem that everyone runs into is trying to assign a timeline on the island - I don't think there is a time line. Charles asks Locke - How long has it been since you met me? 4 days for John was 30 years for Charles. I don't think that events that occur are locked in, just the outcome. Charlotte died because she was meant to die, no matter what Daniel did - so Daniel met Charlotte as a child, realized who she was and tried to become her constant. She remembered him right before she died, but it didn't matter because she was meant to die.
I am most interested in the missing pieces of Ben's life leading up to the gassing of Dharma....how did an abused kid go from just wanting to get out of his situation to helping someone kill all those people. I just want to scoop him up and take care of him, bringing Sayid sandwiches and crying when Roger was abusive....I think we are going to learn that Ben is good and someone else is pulling his strings. If you think about it, he is driven from the beginning by seeing his dead mother and trying to runaway from his abusive drunk father. Then he assists Sayid in escape because he thinks Sayid can get him to a better place (the others - his mother) - and as an adult the first time we see an evil side to Ben is when he murders his father. He admits that it wasn't his idea to kill all those people, someone else made that decision. He wasn't the leader of the others at that point. What kept Ben on the island? Why didn't he just hop a sub back to Portland? What does he ha! ve against the Losties? Unless, one of them made the decision to gas Dharma? I hope we get to know what happened between now and the gassing. I think that will answer a lot of questions.
In conclusion, I still don't know what is going on. But my theory is that our perception of island time is way off. Theory by Pisces74
