There’s a lot of huffing and puffing going on in the comments sections at the moment regarding the purpose of an alt time line and how it has any relevance to our original time line so here’s my thoughts on the matter.
Firstly Darlton has stated clearly that we should “trust them” when it comes to the beginning of season 6. To me this suggests that they realise that at first the idea of an alt timeline will cause the sort of confusion and mildly angry responses that we have been hearing so far. However, it also indicates that they will have a satisfactory explanation that will be revealed in due course, we just have to be patient.
Now with that in mind I have no doubt that if they are going to show us an alt timeline it will have a critical relevance to the plot of the show and won’t just serve as a gimmick to bring back some old faces. The question is what will that be??
A while back, just after the season 5 finale, I posted a theory (annoyingly I can’t for the life of me remember the name of it!!) that explained what I thought might happen after the Incident. The long and short of it was that on attempting to detonate Jughead Jack etc would mind skip back to various times on island that we have previously seen and would have the opportunity change a few details along the way. Meanwhile there bodies would remain lifeless in the temple until the eventually mind skipped back to them in 2007/2008 ready to reunite with Sun.
I still think that the main theme of this theory stands but instead of them mind skipping to previous times in our time line they are going to mind skip to an alt timeline where 815 never crashes. Somehow this experience will prove to them the importance of them being on the island and when the time is right they will mind skip back to their original timeline bodies that will be waiting for them in the temple. Now they are ready and motivated for the coming war…..
Reasons to support that they mind skip rather than physically moving from one time line to the next is that from what we have seen mind skipping can happen without skipper needing to be anywhere specific in order to skip back. This would make it a lot easier for them to return to the original time line without the need for another lengthy “WE HAVE TO GO BACK” mission….it would just happen in a flash!
Also I still think Richards comment to Sun “I saw them all die” is a massive clue. Bare in mind he has seen Locke time flash on several occasions so had he witnessed Jack etc time flash when the incident happened he would know or at least regard that as a possibility and not assume them dead. This to me means that he must have seen there “dead” bodies for him to think them dead. I think he “saw them die” but on Jacobs orders moved their bodies to the temple, maybe even putting their bodies in Egyptian style sarcophagi still assuming them dead.
I think the reason we haven’t seen the Temple yet is because the big reveal there will be that Jack, Kate, Sawyer etc’s bodies have been there since the very first episode waiting for their minds to skip back to them!
So to summarize, our heroes will mind skip from the incident to an alt timeline where they will learn the importance of them being on the island. This being the sole purpose of showing us/them an alt timeline. Once they have learnt this they will mind skip back to their bodies in the original time line just in time to take part in the coming “war”. THEY’RE COMING!
Hope you enjoyed this rehash of my theory. I’ll look forward to hearing your opinions.
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The purpose of an alt timeline by Mark
(Comments: 38)
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38 Comments:
I can see this happening. What if the thing that reconnects their minds with their bodies, is witnessing the end of the world?...that would give some credibility to the idea that they're destiny had always involved going to the island.
I think the "alt timeline" does not really happen, but the people Jacob touched are shown that path by him somehow (It's a Wonderful Life). This idea would sort-of fit in with your theory. If this is not what happens, the first five seasons would have to be a LOT less important and definitive, or part of a REALLY complicated time travel scenario (complicated to a simple-minded person like me, anyhow); and that would be bad.
There have already been a lot of theories like this ,but I really love it. Don't forget that we have aleady seen an alt timeline in FBYE ,after Desmond detonated a bomb to stop the electromagnetism leak. I think everyone can see the parallels here and i really hope that IF we are going to see an Alt timeline this season it should just be a temporarily mind travel like desmond's.
ya, there have been a number of theories and discussions floating around here along these lines of mind-skipping, but this is the first I've read that summarizes it in a way that makes alot of sense. Good job! This is much neater than most other explanations, and fits in well with what we've seen so far.
Hello from Tokyo,
1) I agree for mind skipping. My theory is they will be mind traveled to 815 on flight and land on LAX.
2) I can not believe Jack etc bodies has been in temple. Have you imagined what was the power of hydration bomb? Have you checked Hiroshima/Nagasaki types of Atomic bomb's power? The power of Hydration bomb will be 10 or 100 times stronger.. How can Jack & Co'a bodies be existed and Richard bring all them to Temple? You kidding me. You must check what was happened for bodies after atomic bomb detonated in Hiroshima in WWII.
OK. it is just a SCi-fi show so you theory might be Ok.
But for me, at least I learned the power of atomic bomb at Hiroshima is huge and human body could not be existed under it detonated and because Jack and Co were there at the ground zero.
Cheers.
Hiroki
I agree Hiroki.....Not a chance for the bodies to be moved to the temple after being at ground zero for a Hydrogen Bomb detonation. Good theory otherwise though.
@ Hiroki, @ Randy,
They did not detonate the hydrogen bomb, they only detonated the 'starter bomb' which would have set off the nuke if Sayid had not removed it.
Hiroki, valid point but I never said that they detonated the bomb. I was think that maybe them actually detonating it would have caused a paradox so course correcting made them skip at the moment that it would have detonated. The white flash may have just been a time skip not the explosion. Had they actually detonated jughead it would distroy the island and the future Sun is in wouldn't exist.
iapikey, LOVE that addition. If they witnessed the end of the world that would be awesome and definitely give them the motivation they need to fight the war on the island!
I'm not an Alt guy, but I love this. I've sort of been waiting for somebody to present a rational ALT theory and this one takes the cake among them as far as I see, and as a WHH, single timeline fan, I would be perfectly satisfied if this turned out to be the case.
In fact, to branch out from your theory, I might wonder if Flocke, is actually a flashed Locke who has already woken up from the temple? I know there are a few probalems there, such as where is body went in the Donkey wheel chamber once he left the island, but as we saw with the bunny experiment, there were multiple versions created by the time shift. So this might fit in nicely with the idea that Christian is Jacob, and not MIB, and as such, he took Locke's body to the temple after he turned the Donkey wheel, and upon his death, Locke's conciousness reattached itself to his on island, temple body. Anybody going with that?
Locke4God, that would be very cool! When I read uour idea I got that feeling you get at the end of an episode where something amazing happens as the cliff hanger and your left think "wow, wtf!". I definitely think there is something major to be revealed about the Locke situation and i don't think him being possessed by MIB is the answer.
Hello from Tokyo
@Remco,@Mark
Thanks for your comments.
I would like to focus what the show told.
If you are saying is about the one that SAYID mentioned as "plutonium core" in the episode the Incident.
Yes, Jack took it to the swan site was the plutonium core. See below.
SAYID: The core itself is a thermonuclear weapon. It'll be more than enough.
And the "plutonium core" is compressed plutonium 239 and it was used by implosion assembly method of atomic bomb and it is the same as a plutonium type atomic bomb.
So at least a kind of atomic bomb was detonated at the swan site by Juliet and Jack and Co. were at the ground zero.
So Jack and Co.'s bodies could not be existed.
Now It's very good time to know what was the power of the atomic bomb at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, right?
Please check the power of Atomic bomb at ground zero which is called as "X" at following site.
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp9.shtml
By the way, I believe the mind traveled to 815 for Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sawyer, Hurley, Rose, Burnard and Vincent. Also I believe Miles mind traveled somewhere to U.S. and Juliet mind traveled to the Dharma Ville of the day of ATOTC episode but no 815 crash.
Cheers,
Hiroki
Hello from Tokyo,
I forgot Jin mind traveled also into 815.
Cheers,
Hiroki
Thanks for your comments Hiroki. Someone mentioned a similar poblem which I have adressed above. I don't believe that they did detonate the bomb, I think it is possible that course correction stepped in and mind skipped them to prevent them from causing a paradox by detonating the bomb.
Mark, again great thoughts here. I think it's a very good explanation of what happened with the H bomb. We did see a flash, not an explosion. Also, it's been mentioned before that the bomb would have caused a paradox, but your explanation is good reason why it might not have.
But it still begs the question of what happens after they flash? Do their bodies still sit there lifeless? Is this why Richard says he saw them die? Because they're soul-less (meaning their minds are somewhere else). Hmmm...
Locke4God I dig that.
I have been trying endlessly to put the theory together. I am 100% sure Locke is the same Locke. I am 100% sure that FDW somehow duplicates people or something..(if we consider the deleted season 4 scene)
Season 4 was cut because of the writers strike, right? My guess is that time travel would be introduced if there wasn't for that strike. So this scene was planned (double Ben in Tunisia desert). However they had to cut some episodes so this was no longer fit for season 4 scenario but I am positive this is something they have planned all along. So what happens to Locke who pushed the wheel. If camera stayed in that chamber I am positive we would find out that his body is just lying there so Christian who works for MiB who is a good guy afterall took Lockes unconsciousness body back to the temple..and it is Locke who lived subconsciously everything that "Jeremy Bentham" lived too..so he indeed remembers dying but then suddenly he is awake and enlightened. I will give this idea some more thought..because of certain inconsistencies..but this is something I would really much love to turn out to be true.
Sorry, you did answer the question of where their bodies go. What I should have asked was, what happens to Juliet? Does she mind-flash too, but her body get covered over by concrete? That would seem like more of a slap in the face to the actress. The idea makes alot of sense otherwise.
Maybe it's like Charlotte, and she doesn't flash with them, but she was still alive before the flash, so I dunno?
Oh you Lockies... you are a hoot. Flocke is not Locke. He is an MIB/Smoke manifestation. The evidence is there... I'm sorry but you are all in Locke-obsessed denial.
As far as this theory goes, I like it a lot. I agree that the purpose of showing ALT where they never went to the Island would be to give characters purpose and motivation. The flashbacks showed us how past decisions affected Losties decisions on the Island, and ALT would serve a similar purpose by showing how the Island redeemed these characters.
A lot of people have speculated that Losties are waiting in the temple, but I like how you formulated it would happen. There is a good chance you are right about this.
Great theory! Sorry Lockesters, you're still out of locke. (sorry I couldnt help myself... dont tell me what I can't do!)
Don't get me wrong here buddy, but are you saying that there bodies will lie unconscious, on the brink off death, so much so that Richard will deem them dead, for 30 years in the temple before their minds get back into them?
If the answer to those questions are yes then answer me this:
1 How is it that they are not gonna be old people when they wake up?
2 How is it that they were sustained this whole time or do you think that Richard changed his mind about the "They all died" thing, and is just lying?
3 Why wouldn't it work just as it did for Desmond, The mind skip seemed as if it was for a period of time but in reality it was only a few minutes, then his mind returned to the exact point in time that it left the body?
Again, Don't get me wrong I am an ALT guy, and I will be pleased if an ALT timeline has any sort of impact on the show, but your theory here brings up more questions and creates plotholes.
I'm thinkin' now for my final answer; that we might see an ALT timeline that seems to be very opposite to the one we know, but with a lot of coincidences. At the same time we will see the 77' plotline continue, all the while we will also continue to see the 07' plotline play out. In the 07' plotline there will be flashbacks that connect the 77' plot line to it. In the 77' plotline there will be flash forwards to have connectivity to the 07' plotline. In an ALT timeline there will be parallels drawn to connect it to the original timeline. We will ultimately be shown that it was there all along, and we will also be shown the "when, where, why, and how" of its relevance to the timeline we have been privy to.
At some point all the characters, in all the timelines, will come to an impossible situation, that will suddenly bring it all together, (what that is, is total speculation), but it is at this point that the 77' Crew, and the 07' Crew, meet back up, and also it is at this point that any ALT timelines will be absorbed into the other original timeline, and some changes will happen some things will be the same, but this will be a combined future just as the two timelines have a combined past.
That it the only reason I can see to even attempt to do an ALT timeline.
It wont be an "introduction" to some "new timeline" that wasn't the original plan, that needs to be "fixed". It will instead be "revealed" that it is not "new" at all and has been there all along, (well at leas since 1977), and it's relevance is just under the surface of the last five seasons, and perhaps in some instances it even broke the surface.
I think it's pretty much a given that there will be some kind of alt time line shown to start S6. So in that sense, I agree with most of this theory.
But, as Ricky points out, I'm not sure what to think about the whole "dead" bodies thing. (I'm not sure what Ricky means by #3, but if you remember, Daniel tells Desmond he was out for 30 minutes or whatever, so it is possible for a lot of time to elapse before the consciousness returning to the body). Anyways, I don't know how you can explain the bodies being in the temple for 30 years, but not aging at all or even surviving 30 years unattended. There is certainly the groundwork for something like this to happen i.e. dead/not dead bodies of Nikki and Paolo being buried comes to mind (I guess they weren't completely useless after all)... but some big questions arise if this were to happen.
And G-bo, your comment cracked me up lol
"Great theory! Sorry Lockesters, you're still out of locke. (sorry I couldnt help myself... dont tell me what I can't do!)"
What I meant in #3 was this:
Desmond re-lived like a week or at the very least a few days, while he was out after the blast, but his body wasn't unconscious for that amount of time, his consciousness snapped back to the last known point (after the failsafe blast) and he resumed living from there on, in the authors case, if I'm reading it right, says that The losties will mind flash for 30 years then return to there bodies in 04' or 07', after being in the temple for that time period, or maybe I read it wrong.
But if I didn't read it wrong then what should happen is that they may mind flash and re-live 30 years of their life but when the mind flashing stops they will have been unconscious for just a few minutes and will be alive and kicking back in 77' so they would have to be ageless to still look the same in 07 or there will be some form of time-travel involved.
Hello from Tokyo
>We did see a flash, not an explosion.
Oh... It seems like that you guys here didn't know what will happen when the atomic bomb is detonated ?
You really do not know when the atomic bombs were detonated at Hiroshima/Nagasaki..
In Hiroshima/Nagasaki,
when the atomic bomb is detonated, firstly, it was ultimately strong white light flash around.
People in Hiroshima/Nagasaki all saw the strong light first then strong explosion very hot wind.
If that was a time travel flash, the sound with high frequency noise that were introduced in season 5 should come and sound first then the light will fade-in, correct?
But I believe there is no such timetravel sound obviously.
I belive the the order of the last scene is 1)the plutonium core was detonated 2) it will be white light flash because of Atomic bomb is detonated.
Then 3) it hits the pocket of electromagnetic energy and then 4) Jack and Co.'s mind travel might happened.
Cheers,
Hiroki
You've probably got to get the physical 1977 bodies to 2007/08 FIRST to make sense of the mental time travel a la FBYE.
So IMO, the Incident would move their physical bodies forward in time, while their consciousness leave for a few minutes.
In that few minutes, the ALT scenario plays out just like FBYE.
Although I love the temple ideas, it's hard to imagine a way to compensate for the age problem.
Hiroki, I personally believe the explosion was negated by the EM anomaly.
Because clearly, it would have destroyed much more than Jack and Sawyer standing a few yards away.
So I am thinking it was contained within the hole.
And this is theoretically why Juliet could die and the others probably don't.
It's hard to imagine what will actually happen but it's fun.
Hello from Tokyo,
@Thunderstorm,
> I personally believe the explosion was negated by the EM anomaly.
NO. Atomic Bomb is by a nuclear reaction which is based on Atomic element.
Electromagnetism is by a kind of photon.
Atomic bomb's nuclear reaction causes gamma-line which is a photon.
Then this photon could react with the electromagnetic photon.
So obviously Electromagnetism does NOT negate Atomicbomb's nuclear reaction.
Gamma-line that was caused by nuclear reaction of atomic bomb could react with the pocket of electromagnetic energy.
So Electromagnetism could enhance Atomic bomb's reaction.
Also,
1. The plutonium core (a kind of atomic bomb) is detonated. I have explained it above.
2. The white flash at last scene is the flash from detonated atomic bomb. I have explained it above.
So the conclusion here is any physical bodies cannot be existed at the ground zero. I have told it above.
Cheers,
Hiroki
Man, I am MASSIVELY confused with the people who think
a) Jacob took Locke's body to the temple
b) Locke reawakens on the island
c) Locke tricks Ben into stabbing Jacob
eh... why in the world is "c" compatible with the first two? What's his motivation? Why in the world would Locke want Jacob dead? Why is Locke saying "I found the loophole" when MIB in the late 1800s went looking for it? No one ever seems content to answer that. It was written for a reason.
Terry O'Quinn said in an interview that was posted HERE on DarkUfo the night of the s5 finale "Locke is dead, 100%, no question. I will be playing a new character next year."
No one seems to remembers that.
I would seriously find it and post it for all of us again, but have you guys tried using the search function here? I typed in "terry o'quinn interview" and like 150 results came up, and most were from the first season. Hell no I'm not going through each one.
John I think this is the one you want but it is not definitive, it is just O'Quinn's take on the finale, but he had know idea what the writers have in store for Locke season 6.
Anyway it only took me one minute to find it via the search button: http://lost-media.com/2009/05/18/terry-oquinn-interview-about-locke/
I just typed: terry oquinn season five finale interview Locke is dead
Ricky, you can't prove or disprove what O'Quinn knows about whats going to happen in S6. Damon and Carlton could very well have had lunch with him before the finale and said "Locke is dead, be prepared to play a new character next season" and left it at that, before Terry saw the finale, or did this interview.
That fits 100% perfectly with this interview, and its what I'm going with.
Terry O'Quinn has never been one to speculate (he doesn't even seem that interested in doing so, whereas someone like Michael Emerson or Jorge Garcia love it), so I don't see O'Quinn just guessing at this or making it up from little to no information.
Ricky, to sum up, you typed in "Terry o quinn season five finale interview LOCKE IS DEAD". :)
I think it *adds* weight due to the fact that at the time he gave this interview he hadn't seen the opening scene with Pelegrino and Welliver talking about the loophole.
O'Quinn had knowledge he shouldn't have had.
Ricky, we're really active right now over at this one: http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2009/11/jacobs-gone-up-in-smoke-by-lewton-wicks.html
can you check that one out and offer some thoughts? Thanks bro. Ricky is my brother raised by another from another Other's mother.
10 days ago you told me you were going to find a loophole to steal my lucky 2 dollar bill. Today, a person I've apparently never met before walks in, eyeing my lucky 2 dollar bill. I say to this person "I guess you found your loophole" and the person nods, or doesn't disagree or say "what are you talking about??" And then... he makes off with my lucky 2 dollar bill.
Why is everyone assuming this "new" person ISN'T you? YOU were the one who set out to steal my lucky 2 dollar bill. YOU were the one who said you'd find the loophole. Why would I say to a complete stranger, someone else "well, guess you found your loophole to steal my lucky 2 dollar bill"??
Jack and Kate plus 8, Locke's Disciple, Ricky, others, we *REALLY* need to meet up in a chat room periodically to hash all this stuff out in real time.
I'm going absolutely NUTS waiting for s6! And I guess I'm curbing the urge a little to post here.. and wait and refresh and wait and refresh these posts hoping for interaction.
Who's with me? We can join the spoilerslost chatrooms like #lostspoilers. I would really enjoy just hammering all this stuff out there with you guys.
Let me know please. I figure I'm not allowed to give out my email address here in these posts so I'll just keep coming back here to see if you guys are game.
Ricky, thanks for your comments. In response:
1) Why is it so hard to believe their bodies don't age when we have several instances of the exact same thing in Richard and Jacob. Who's to say that Jacobs touch doesn't have something to do with them not aging once their minds left their bodes?
2) My theories is that their bodies have been waiting in the temple. For them to be moved there rather than buried someone obviously intended on sustaining them there. Who that is exactly I don't know.
3) When minkowski (or whatever his name was) was mind skipping on the freighter he would be out cold for periods of time when he mind jumped. This proves that the skip back isn't instant from the perspective of the vacated body and therefore means its plausable that time does pass during the skip. Plus all these time travel Phenomenon’s have been unpredictable as Daniel was constantly stating so in that sense anything is possible.
I agree Mark, with time skipping, paradoxes and the Temple being a place for their bodies. I believe it to be a place which is protected from time. The last safe place on the island we were told by Ben (if anything he says is true). It could be either a place where time moves differently, a place where one can access any point of time from but most importantly I think that people in there are not affected by changes to the timeline. It could be a place which "tidies up" multiple versions of one being - like Locke. It could even be a place where one can swap with a version of one's self from another iteration of the timeline (eg when Ben died as a boy he was not cured only swapped with another version of himself from a timeline when he wasn't shot by Sayid).
I'm popping back in to say that I think the island as a whole can "tidy" up multiple timelines and make any possibility a reality.
It's the only thing that explains the daniel/desmond situation.
Cass -- I've missed you dearly.