‘W’hat is the ‘alt’? by Cloud

Hey all, long time reader, first time poster here, hope you like it!

Since the season started, I’ve been trying to wrap my brain around the alt timeline. I think I might have at least got it folded in half like a cheese curd omelet.

Did Jughead go off or not? In the alt it looks like it did, not so on the island. Is this a ‘what if’ scenario where we see both sides? I don’t think so anymore.

I think Jughead went off. (Destroying the island then, in 1977?) Dying consciousness Juliet is right: it ‘worked’. No island no hatch no button no plane crash. No survivors to time travel means no Jughead delivery at the Swan. So no reset and the swan is built and the button not pushed and the plane crashes. This would be a paradox loop. One causes the other, which prevents one, which prevents the other, which causes the one.

So the universe has to preserve the ‘original?’ island timeline to prevent a paradox. So reality splits. The ‘alt’ now exists as it would have, preserved by the split worlds. I don’t think the universe likes this either, so maybe it will try to merge them/course correct? Or make a separate Time Bubble.

Read an interesting idea that on island, Jughead didn’t go off and became the failsafe. Remember what happened to Dez when he set it off? Wonder what happened to Juliet when she did? She had a flash of some sort. Will we get to see her in the alt with special variable powers? (Prob not)

We have seen the island move through space and people on it move through time… I wonder if the island can dimension jump too? Who put that wheel there?

If “it always ends the same way” is the island already looping? Is Jacob trying to get out of the loop or isolate it from the time continuum? Or prevent any ‘end’ and just loop forever.

Who are Adam and Eve? Kate did find them (Evie!) and it looks like Jack may be gearing up for a protector role, maybe they realize they have to stay and protect the island in Jacob’s stead to allow their alt selves to live. Selfless and selfish all at once! But I have thought for a while they could be Penny and Dez (didn’t we see those stones in his apt in a flash?), and now maybe Sun and Jin, but my money is still on Jate (sorry Skaters!) Not seeing Bernie and Rose here. (Ok, maybe Aaron and Ji Yeon)

But wait there’s more! When first looking at the skeletons, Jack says the deterioration of the fabric means they have to be “40 or 50 years old.” 2004 – 50 = 1954! Jughead! Hmmm… so if we are now in 2007 how will we get back to 1954 again?

Bets on the final scene? Eye opening/closing, or Jack and Kate on the beach. I bet smokey loses/ stays trapped (Genie?). Kinda think that smokey is the devil (Temptation) but it says it remembers being a man. I know it can access memories, but… maybe it just took the form of Titus? Or maybe it’s a curse. God gives its creations the choice of sin and free will. Hmmm. This would be great except they seem like actual people once, unsure. Maybe they both answer to God?

Original series name – ‘The Circle’… maybe the island timeline has to split off and loop forever to preserve the Alt (true?) timeline? I liked how Oroboros was the symbol for the secret temple passage. Would this trap Smokey forever?

Lotta fire and water symbolism, remember the Fire + Water episode title? Really, mixing fire and water make more steam than smoke, but…

If the Island is a “****”, what happens to Jacob and Smokey if it sinks? Is Smokey free in the alt? Or trapped?

Was hoping that if a character died in one timeline, the other would get their memories, but this doesn’t seem to be happening. Maybe Desmond? Enjoying the parallels and mirror images though.

About the candidates: We did not see the entire 360 of the lighthouse wheel, so we don’t know what else might be written and not crossed off, so Lapidus might be there. How do we know we saw everything on the cave wall? Also CC said that Kate’s name is on the cave wall, and was cut for editing. (Canon?) Better question, why is she 51? Is Sayid out for sure? Sure I want to know who Wallace is too. And I think Kwon is Jin, if not Ji Yeon. Where is Aaron if he’s so special? Would his last name be Littleton? WAAAAAAAAAAAAALT! (Vincent is Anibus!) I can’t wait to see what Desmond does! (You KNOW he will be back on the island! C’mon!) What is Illana’s last name anyway? Was Michael touched? Maybe Jacob touched both Sun and Jin because Ji Yeon wasn’t born yet? She is part of each of them? We didn’t say candidates couldn’t die, just that they can’t kill themselves, and that apparently Jacob or Smokey can’t do it directly.

Richard, give me some answers please! So did the island move under the ship or what? Did Smokey throw it there? What is this ash? Blessed ash? Ash from some particular fire? Who made the rules? Are they enforced?

Jacob: “You can’t win, Smokey. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”

Dark Tower, Star Wars, Gulliver’s Travels, Star Trek, Donnie Darko, Butterfly Effect, all the books!

Gotta watch Millennium again. (Read the book) and reread Mostly Harmless also.

Thank you CCDLTPTB!
And then just when I thought it made sense to me I read this from Ceti and went ‘Oh snap!’

Ceti 2 weeks ago in reply to B3

“I think Radzinsky's drilling sunk the island, which would have happened if the Losties had not interfered with the timeline (and thus blowing up Jughead's detonator suppressed the Island from imploding and sinking, as per Miles' observation).

The hatch only gets built after Jughead's detonation, which always happened in the timeline where they jumped around in time and affected history. All the relations between the characters are a result of all this interference and time traveling.

In the alt-timeline, no time traveling happened because 815 never went down and the Island was always sunk by Dharma.”

Hmmm rats, I think I like this version better than the other way round. Except we still have a paradox. The losties cause themselves to crash after they crash. In their world line, they crash and then cause themselves to crash. Chicken and egg. Faraday warned Chang to evacuate, would this have happened if he wasn’t there? Faraday also told 1954 Richard and Eloise

Also then the losties would have caused another paradox if they didn’t set the bomb off. Faraday seemed convinced that the drilling causes a catastrophe which causes the swan to be built with the button to control it. That doesn’t sound ‘negated’. The losties thought they would prevent the crash, ok, ok, maybe they were wrong as Miles stated. But then why are there two timelines? I mean we didn’t see the other alt line until the incident.

Ok so think about it, if Radzinsky’s drilled and blew up the island and they never crashed, what happened in the other timeline? They always crashed and set the bomb off causing them to crash, a nice little loop of causality. But there is no choice here! Either it never happened or it always did. I thought this show was about free will and choice. Instead now I am supposed to think there are two different fates? One that either always happened or one that never did. Where is the free will? They had a choice not to set the bomb off, but in this version it would what, destroy that timeline if they didn’t? And LAX would still be fine? I really do like this explanation also and I guess we will have to wait and see.

Why are there two timelines then? Many worlds theory? Ok, I can buy that. Except then there aren’t just two, right? It’s not the ‘Two worlds theory’. Hmmmm. I love a show that makes me think like this. And a fan community this smart and creative.

http://www.docarzt.com/lost/lost-recaps/dropping-h-bombs-503-jughead/
OMG I’m my own grandpa! The Compass. Causality loops seem ok here. Faraday is the timecop. Maybe Radzinsky’s drilling does make more sense, ideas?