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A theory I had was that maybe when someone dies on the island, they go to Smokey's lair, since Smokey guards the underworld. Some of the dead Losties escape but they are in ghost form or some are able to whisper.
Maybe the whispering are of the dead inhabitants of the island and they are trying to warn the Losties to run. Ben said to Rosseau that when she hears the whispers, that she is to run away. Some are able to appear to the Losties but for a short period of time. Or maybe, the Smoke monster takes the appearance of the inhabitants i.e. John Locke.
I think that the dead people are either apparitions by the monster or the dead people are trapped on the island and can only communicate via whispers, short appearances, etc.
In "Follow the Leader" Richard mentioned that the infamous COMPASS was a bit rusty and decayed after fifty years. That same compass goes back in time, where Richard originally obtains it, as we know. But the compass didn't get any YOUNGER when it traveled back, just like our Losties didn't get younger when they went back to 1977. People and items age normally, continually, even if they're looping.
What if Richard is in a loop after all? Jacob HAD to make him ageless to maintain the part of the timeline Richard's loop exists in, otherwise he'd age normally and die after only a couple loops, royally mucking up the timeline. ... Sort of like what might happen if the compass continues to age and decay until it crumbles into dust or something. Suddenly the timeline has no more compass. Course correction could work for the compass problem, perhaps? But maybe Richard is too important to just be course corrected, so he simply MUST be ageless. Him gone would be to
this is from Wikipedia about A-Bombs and H-Bomb-testing in the history of mankind:
MOST IMPORTANT READ:
* Underground testing refers to nuclear tests which are conducted under the surface of the earth, at varying depths. Underground nuclear testing made up the majority of nuclear tests by the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War; other forms of nuclear testing were banned by the Limited Test Ban Treaty in 1963. When the explosion is fully contained, underground nuclear testing emits a negligible amount of fallout. However, underground nuclear tests can "vent" to the surface, producing considerable amounts of radioactive debris as a consequence. Underground testing can result in seismic activity depending on the yield of the nuclear device and the composition of the medium it is detonated in, and generally result in the creation of subsidence craters.
NOT THIS IMPORTANT READ: * Underwater testing results from nuclear devices being detonated underwater, usually moored to a ship or a barge (which is subsequently destroyed by the explosion). Tests of this nature have usually been conducted to evaluate the effects of nuclear weapons against naval vessels (such as in Operation Crossroads), or to evaluate potential sea-based nuclear weapons (such as nuclear torpedoes or depth-charges). Underwater tests close to the surface can disperse large amounts of radioactive water and steam, contaminating nearby ships or structures.
MY THEORY:
To put it short: Whatever happened, happened! The fallout isn´t this big underground. Did you realize the large and very present amount of watertanks at the Swan-site? They could be very helpful to contain the H-bomb. So this could be an underground & underwater detonation of a H-bomb.
Ok, so I believe the 815ers (without Juliet) and Miles plus father can escape from the detonation-area and the seismic activities. This would mean, that they survived somehow and are still on the island!!! Little Ben however could be the only victim of radiation due to his cancer. The health of the surviving 815ers can also be questioned.
When asked "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" Richard responded with something along the lines of, "He who will save us all."
On of the final scenes of the Indecent revealed John Locke's corpse literally lying in the shadow of the statue.
John Locke is "he who will save us all"
A common theory, which is almost becoming general understanding, is that the Locke that "resurrected" is only a replication, the personification of Esau or Smokey (or both). I will not delve much into this theory because it has been covered many times.
It is very significant that Esau did not assume Locke's actual body, but only replicated it. This leaves a corpse that save poor writing, cannot just be left alone. Jacob is "dead" but it is safe to assume his role is not finished, really it has just begun. He will continue to impact season 6 by assuming the actual body of Locke, something Esau could not do. This is why he seemed so willing to accept death, because he knew would have a means of continuing.
"One is light, one is dark." With this statement Locke was describing himself. In season 6 we will see two John Locke's. One the replication, the embodiment of Esau, and the other the real John Locke and personification of Jacob. This idea of Locke representing, or embodying both sides was shown in Claire's dream. Locke is seen with one black eye and a white eye, symbolizing the duality that would be part of his future persona. In the season finale, as Locke and Ben enter the statue, the lighting creates a similar effect with his eyes. One light and one dark. He looks like this for about 10 seconds as the stand int he entrance of the statue. The two images can be seen in the links below:
OK, this is my first time post, and its short. Ive been reading here for awhile but Ive never posted. Im sorry if this has been said before. Heres my theory:
In the season 4 finale we see Ben and Jack standing over Lockes dead body. This is when Ben tells Jack that they need to go back, ALL of them (reffering to Locke).
Now lets think about when the presumed "Easu" was in John Locke's body and told richard alpert to tell Locke that he needed to die. He told him, and Locke did die.... by BEN'S hands.
This is the loophole that easu reffered to. easu then somehow came into contact with ben, and ben made it a necessity for Locke to go back to the Island. Locke's body is then infilitrated by the Black-shirted man (easu) and takes Ben to kill jacob. Ben knows this, and that is why he does not hesitate to kill Jacob.
Ben is working for easu because they both want to kill Jacob. Together they acheive their ultimate goal.
Sorry if this is confusing... Its hard to put it all into understandable words. Thanks for reading!
This theory is HIGHLY speculative, and the series most likely won't pan out this way, but I just think this would be a great way for the series to go out, based on what we already know.
The Island is a giant alien spacecraft used as a "Trial" of worthiness but a distant and sophisticated race of alien beings. This alien races sends two of their kind on this space vessel and exile them onto another planet where they must undergo a competition/trial of sorts. The two beings brought to Earth were Jacob and (for lack of a better name) Anti-Jacob.
Now these two were tasked with landing the ship on Earth and masking it by allowing Earth flora and wildlife to grow on top of the ship. Their goal was to follow the ever-evolving human race and to cultivate a society similar to their Alien race. For example, their race placed a set of morals and rules that they would like to spread throughout the galaxy. The "Trial" not only puts Jacob and Anti-Jacob to the test of trying to cultivate a society similar to their own, but also would improve the life of humans on Earth.
Jacob and Anti-Jacob are not allowed to kill or hurt each other directly. The rules are that they can only try to convince humans through persuasion. They have many "supernatural" abilities such as healing people, traveling through space-time, and manifesting themselves in (unburied) dead human corpses.
They influence societies throughout the millenia, often manifesting themselves as "gods" (a la Stargate). They particularly have an influence on Egyptian culture, of which was perhaps the most promising trial. They perhaps brought certain people to the Island throughout the centuries who were deemed worthy and could follow the Alien code of conduct.
However, at one point it seems a conflict emerges between Jacob and Anti-Jacob. Their efforts are futile and cannot seem to cultivate an adequate Alien-society. So, one day Jacob brings a new group in from the Black Rock ship. Through some course of events, Jacob manages to trap Anti-Jacob in a cabin, limiting Anti-Jacob's powers to manifesting himself as a cloud of black smoke and manifesting in dead corpses. However, Jacob also disappears (perhaps is also imprisoned in the statue?). Thus, Anti-Jacob begins telling people on the Island he is Jacob and starts building his society = The Others.
The Others are thus the followers of Anti-Jacob unknowingly. Meanwhile, Jacob has plans of his own and secretly starts recruiting a new group of people to come to the Island to overthrow the Others. The main people in this group are Hurley, Jack, Jin, Sun, Kate, Sayid, and Sawyer. Jacob believes through this group, he can finally create the perfect trial. Not through bringing PERFECT people onto the Island, but through bringing FLAWED people onto the Island and allowing them to make their own mistakes, discover their own destiny, and choose the alien code of morals themselves.
Thus, the "disagreement" between Jacob and Anti-Jacob. Anti-Jacob believes that only through sheer fear (black smoke, capturing people in the night, etc.) can they force the society on the humans. Jacob believes otherwise and has faith that a group of flawed humans have the potential for good and can end the "Trial".
Through the series of events through the 6 seasons, we see the characters undergo many changes. The producers have stated that the characters were always the main crux of the story. So, in the end, somehow I believe Jacob will somehow get Jack and the others to attain control of the ship and transport them to the alien world at the end of the series.
There will be a final dilemma in that they find out the human race is doomed to extinction. There is an impending disaster that will destroy the human race and everyone is trying to get the ship to just leave. Jacob however still wants his group of worthy humans to take command of the ship.
The end of the series would involve Widmore battle to gain control of the Island, possibly in alliance with Anti-Jacob. Meanwhile, Jack finally confronts his father, manifested with Anti-Jacob but retaining the memories of his father. There will be a final battle between Jack/Christian(Anti-Jacob) and Ben/Widmore. Anti-Jacob, Ben, and Widmore proably die, but Jacob sacrifices himself to save Jack's group.
The Earth-ending incident begins and Jack is forced to activate the ship controls. It would be a fantastic ending to Lost to see Jack and whoever survives to take control of the ship and see them embark of a journey through space-time to reach the Alien society to achieve their reward of an eternity of peace and acceptance in the galactic community as the only worthy survivors of the human race.
Thus, the series ends with Jack and his crew lost in the reaches of space-time on a fantastic voyage toward mankind's ultimate destiny.
Hello everyone. Just a couple of things to think about. I believe that what we saw in the last episode of 5th season is the natural course of history. What I mean: if Juliette detonated the bomb and because of that the passengers never came to the island, then the whole show makes no sense whatsoever. The fact that the plane crashed and Desmound spent 3 years on the island means that the hatch has been built. If the hatch has been built, it means that there was an incident. If there was an incident, then the incident was what we saw in the season finale. There is no way that the incident has been something else (simply because Dr. Chen wouldn't have known about it and hence wouldn't have made his family leave the island). Follow my thought? If he made them leave, then he knew that sth was going to happen. If he knew, then someone told him, someone from the future - his son. Exactly the same thing that we saw. So,! whatever happened - happened. I think that when she detonated the bomb she triggered another flash,not entirely new sequence of events. Meaning that "they are coming" to the present days when Ben killed Jacob (and also meaning that Juliette is indeed dying). Or, alternatively, they can be sent long way back in time where they meet Jacob, he reveals to them what happened in the future (here I am blindly guessing) and then they go back in time to wage a war against Locke, Ben and whoever else is left. All comments are welcome and sorry if someone has posted the same thing here.
Ok, so here's a theory inspired by these very interesting theories I'm seeing based on the fact that the "Locke" from 9/22/04 onwards we see on screen may in fact not ALWAYS be John Locke. I have started watching Season 1 since the finale, I'm getting in about 4 episodes a night, then slamming it down on the weekends. I'm almost done with Season two.
At certain times, Locke seems two-faced. At times he's lost, and scared, and fearful of Ben, the monster, and questioning everything. Other times, like when he's digging up the hatch, or when he is blowing up subs, throwing knives in nadia's back, or promoting everything to happen according to his catch phrase "this wasn't supposed to happen" those times really make me see that at all times there were TWO LOCKE's running around the island the day of 9/22/2004. The real one, and the doppleganger.
When the plane crashed, and there was a Locke staring at his toes wiggling, this was our Locke, however it seems that his first encounter with the smoke monster or this "I have seen the heart of the island, and it is beautiful" Locke had his encounter with TMIB and from this point forward, TMIB had scanned him and was able to now use his form (just like he was able to do with Yemi, Alex, Christian, etc...)
Now all this time there were two Lockes? Let's really think this through. This reminds me of the movie the Prestige, but what if the real Locke needed to be "disposed of" so the fake Locke could set up the events that led to the time travelling so that Locke (who's really TMIB) could convince Richard that young Locke (the real Locke)indeed was special all so that he could be marched right up to Jacob by Richard himself. It's the perfect scam. We know now, by rewatching season 5, that in many instances Locke and Smokie have never been in the same scene together... Locke 2.0 coming out of the jungle, Locke 2.0 disappearing when Ben's being judged. Kudos to those of you making this prediciton back then.
So let's think, as to not give up his position TMIB needs to rid of real Locke, but the rules don't allow TMIB to directly kill anyone who was worthy of redemption (which is why Hurley, Ben, Locke, etc... have all survived Smokey's wrath), but those like Eko, die. So instead of killing him, TMIB trapped him in the cabin. Well not him, but his spirit. Somehow. And assumed the body form of John Locke. And at some point, Locke was ALWAYS TMIB, where his spirit was in the Cabin. It would appear as if this spirit form of Locke in the cabin would indeed be asking someone to "Help Him"
I have always thought that TMIB (as Locke) wanted to tell Richard to tell Locke he needed to die, because Locke's death was the way to get Ben back on the plane to come back to the island to kill Jacob. Locke dying, has so many purposes in this game. His "resurrection" obviously is what elevated him to Moses status, when we know now it was yet just another season finale, the third one in a row, which ends with damn dead Locke in a box! Ugh. So not only does the death propogate more of Locke being a special person, it is really what got Jack to change his mind about faith, and why Jack told Richard in 1977 "not to give up hope yet" This further propogated the "Locke is special" lie. And sadly, we all know, that poor locke is, and always was, just a pawn. Also remember Jack hearing about his father from Locke is what got him going on getting everyone back in the first place. Ben getting on the plane, was orchestrated by Hawking telling him where and when. Hawking ALSO is a cha! mpion of DESTINY (the same oatmeal that TMIB feeds us in the opening scene), and it would seem that it's possible she's on that "side" of the game.
So when TMIB (Locke) and Ben go to Jacobs cabin in TMBTC, it's really John Locke that's trapped in there, and this event was designed for BEN. Ben was surprised when things started flying around in there. All this time Ben believes that it's Jacob in that cabin, because a Fake Richard has told him this. That's right, there are two Richards. There is Jacob's Richard, whom I believe is in the temple, living in barracks, camps, etc... doing what Jacob revived him to do, advise the Others. But there is the occasional TMIB version of Richard also. When Ben meets Richard as a boy in the jungle, Ben is meeting a TMIB who has assumed a form of a dead Richard Alpert, perhaps a great man from the black rock who died on the island. Jacob revives him, and gives him eternal life, TMIB uses his form to manipulate Ben. See when Kate and Sawyer are taking young Ben to the Others, and Richard just magically appears out of the brush. Hmmm... well you guessed it, it was smokey. He had to inter! cept Ben and revive him quickly, because Ben was part of the crucial plan. Ben needed to live so he could grow up, and kill Jacob. So Ben dies, TMIB also has the power to grant life, just like Jacob. And now he has a dead Ben body to assume form, which I totally believe is the "Ben" who was manipulating Sayid to be a killer... you guessed it, another doppleganger!
So it's becoming quite the search, I'm taking mad notes rewatching the seasons, trying to investigate fake people. See, at times I thought Terry O'Quinn was a fantastic actor, then others I thought he was cheesy and his dialogue was forced and unemotional. Ben too, I thought "man sometimes these guys are fantastic actors, others their characters are hard to swallow with their horribly forced dialogue." But I wonder, if the scripts were written in that way with notes. Locke 1.0 "blah blah blah..." (act scared, timid, inquisitive) and then Locke 2.0 "blah blah blah destiny..." (act confident like you are a god yourself) these notes could be given to the actors, and they themselves had no idea they were playing two different characters, a real one, and a smokie one. I mean the interviews with each actor clearly reveals that they are clueless to the storyline.
After rewatching the season finale I am convinced that Juliet was pregnant. If you notice the way she carries herself throughout the entire episode its as if she had just realized it. She is consistently holding her hands in front of her stomach the entire episode. The interactions between Bernard and her are also somewhat revealing. Bernard seems to notice that something is up with Juliet when he offers her to stay and have a cup of tea. She then says maybe another time while holding her stomach the way a mother-to-be would. (here is the clip of this scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2VgsjywyY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fvideosearch%3Fclient%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%2Dus%26q%3Dbernard%2520and%2520juliet%2520exchange%26oe%3DUTF%2D8&feature=player_embedded) This may explain why women are no longer able to have children on the island. Perhaps in Juliet and her child to be's deaths the island n! o longer allows children to be born on the island. It would make sense for her story if she, like Daniel and the compass, are forever stuck in a time loop. She is brought to the island to figure out why women and unborn children are constantly dying on the island, only to go back in time and get pregnant herself, setting off the bomb that emits the radiation causing women to not be able to give birth on the island and necessitating the need for Juliet to eventually come to the island. Just like Daniel she is in a never ending time loop of her own fabrication. Juliet's story has now been told all the way through and unfortunately she is most definitely dead. On a side note, and I don't know if this has yet to be mentioned, but I also think that Claire could be dead (perhaps the house explosion). I hope that it is not true, but she began to get very weird after the explosion and the subsequent jaunt through the woods back to the beach. On the way she up and leaves Aaron in th! e roots of a tree while following Christian through the woods ! and then to the cabin. We then see her kicking it all happy go lucky like with Christian in the cabin. She has no concern for where Aaron is or what everyone else is doing. If she is not dead, then perhaps it was her that was tricked into breaking the ash ring. I guess we won't know the answer to these until the last season. Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
The Omega Point is (also) Frank Tipler's term for what he maintains is the ultimate fate of the universe required by the laws of physics. Tipler has summarized his theory as follows:
* The universe has finite spatial size and the topology of a three-sphere; * There are no event horizons, implying the future c-boundary is a point, called the Omega Point; * Sentient life must eventually engulf the entire universe and control it; * The amount of information processed between now and the Omega Point is infinite; * The amount of information stored in the universe asymptotically goes to infinity as the Omega Point is approached.[1]
According to Tipler's Omega Point Theory, as the universe comes to an end in a specific kind of Big Crunch, the computational capacity of the universe will be accelerating exponentially faster than time runs out. In principle, a simulation run on this universal computer can thus continue forever in its own terms, even though the universal computer is embedded in a universe that will last only a finite time. The Omega Point Theory requires that the universe eventually contract, and that there be intelligent civilizations in existence at the appropriate time to exploit the computational capacity of such an environment.
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Call me crazy, this thing sounds like the island....
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Tipler identifies the final singularity of this asymptotically infinite information capacity with God. According to Tipler and David Deutsch, an implication of this theory is that this ultimate cosmic computer will be able to resurrect (via emulation) everyone who has ever lived, by simulating all possible quantum brain states within the master simulation. This will manifest itself as a simulated reality. From the perspective of its simulated inhabitants, the Omega Point is an infinite-duration afterlife, which could take any imaginable form due to its virtual nature.
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doesn't this thing sounds like the island ?!?!?
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Tipler's Omega Point Theory is predicated on an eventual Big Crunch, a scenario believed unlikely by some because of certain recent astronomical observations implying that the expansion of the universe is accelerating.
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this is the part where i get lost.... so lets stop right here. in essence, this is an end of the world thing -- it harkens back to the Valenzetti Equation.
what then becomes of the island if it is indeed independent of the earth? are the specimens of our race collected on this island to see if they can overcome their obstacles to find their personal sense of grace?
or is this some giant godly game of chess or backgammon as it were?
people have been after a more scientific approach to explain what's going on here -- i think this Omega Point theory is the closest thing I've seen to the laws of physics explaining what we're seeing on the island:
evolution computers reincarnation infinite knowledge time shifting etc...
Not to step on anyone's toes -- but after I stumbled upon this chain of references it should be noted these connections have been made elsewhere (post by Jacob4Jesus), but perhaps deserve another push.
Many people have commented on Jacob reading "Everything That Rises Must Converge" by Flannery O'Connor... a quick search will tell you what the book is about, im sure you've already done the link tracking through wikipedia yourself but:
"The title Everything That Rises Must Converge refers to an underlying religious message central to her work- aiming to expose the sinful nature of humanity that often goes unrecognized in the modern, secular world."
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But here's the deeper reference if you haven't already dipped into it:
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The title of the collection and of the short story of the same name is taken from a passage from the work of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.
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A quick search will reveal this nugget:
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"Teilhard studied what he called the rise of spirit, or evolution of consciousness, in the universe. He believed it to be observable and verifiable in a simple law he called the Law of Complexity/Consciousness. This law simply states that there is an inherent compulsion in matter to arrange itself in more complex groupings, exhibiting higher levels of consciousness. The more complex the matter, the more conscious it is"...
"The universe, he argued, strives towards higher consciousness, and does so by arranging itself into more complex structures."
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Jacob's optimistic view explained anyone? Here's the long bit of it:
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"Teilhard... proposed another level of consciousness, to which human beings belong, because of their cognitive ability; i.e. their ability to 'think'. Human beings, Teilhard argued, represent the layer of consciousness which has "folded back in upon itself", and has become self-conscious. "
"So in addition to the geosphere and the biosphere, Teilhard posited another sphere, which is the realm of human beings, the realm of reflective thought: the noosphere."
...
In the noosphere Teilhard believed the same Law of Complexity/Consciousness to be at work, although not in a way previously seen. He argued that ever since human-beings first came into existence 200,000 years ago, the Law of Complexity/Conscious began to run on a different (higher) plane. Consciousness in the universe, he argued, now continues to rise in the complex arrangement and unification of mankind on earth. As human beings converge around the earth, he reasoned, unifying themselves in ever more complex forms of arrangement, consciousness will rise.
Finally, the keystone to his phenomenology is that because Teilhard could not explain why the universe would move in the direction of more complex arrangements and higher consciousness, he postulated that there must exist ahead of the moving universe, and pulling it along, a higher pole of supreme consciousness, which he called Omega Point.
In this theory, the universe is constantly developing towards higher levels of material complexity and consciousness, a theory of evolution that Teilhard called the Law of Complexity/Consciousness. For Teilhard, the universe can only move in the direction of more complexity and consciousness if it is being drawn by a supreme point of complexity and consciousness. Thus Teilhard postulates the Omega Point as the supreme point of complexity and consciousness, which is not only as the term of the evolutionary process, but is also the actual cause for the universe to grow in complexity and consciousness. In other words, the Omega Point exists as supremely complex and conscious, independent of the evolving universe. I.e., the Omega Point is transcendent. In interpreting the universe this way, Teilhard kept the Omega Point within the orthodox views of the Christian God, who is transcendent (independent) of his creation.
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This is totally consistent with Jacob's message of progress. To be continued.....
This is a short theory, but after the shocking finale, I think that ever since the plane crashed the first time around, John Locke has, at times or always, been or possessed by the so called "black shirt guy," Jacob's rival and rumoured bad twin.
This would explain multiple motifs associated with John's characters, e.g.:
- the miraculous healing of his legs - the spiritual connection with the Island - the black and white themes associated with John Locke: - the game he demonstrated to Walt - the black-and-white eyes in Claire's nightmare in season one - Abbaddon's guidance while Locke was paralyzed. As it was revealed in the finale, Jacob also traveled or appeared off-island to ask Illana for help.
If this turns out to be true in season six, it would show that Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse used foreshadowing as a narrative device very craftly.
Please rate and let me know your thoughts on this.
Ok. Dead is dead and you don't get to come back form that, right? Well, not really, because there are a bunch of dead people around the Island and popping up in crucial moments. The first dead man walking was Christian, who I thought was some sort of guilt induced mental ghost for the first few seasons, until it became obvious season five that the dead were interacting with the living in very purposeful ways.
We've got Locke who is dead but not dead, and also Christian and Alex. Its possible that Clair was killed in the house explosion. I am thinking that perhaps Sayid is dead too. Here is why:
1. Its been pointed out again and again that the O6 had to WANT to come back to the Island. Sayid did not come back on his own free will, but was dragged onto the plane via Ilianna's handcuffs.
2. Sayid somehow got sucked back to 1977, but was not with Kate, Jack and Hurley. Christian's body disappeared and dead Locke was found 'wondering around the jungle'.
3. Sayid keeps appearing from the jungle in critical moments -- at just the 'right' time to be captured, but not let free by Jin (thus put into the brig and able to shoot lil' Ben) and just in time to keep Kate from getting shot as she is walking away from Jack's crazy plan.
4. Sayid was able to fix the bomb to go off on impact. However, he might have 'fixed' it NOT to go off at all. I mean, just because the screen went white doesn't mean that the nuke went off. Poor old broken-to-pieces-at-the-bottom-of-a-huge-hole Juliet would have hardly had the strength to make an impact sensitive bomb that didn't explode after a fifty foot plus fall go off with a rock.
5. Our tank-topped wonder said "nothing can save me".
6. Jacob got Ilianna to capture Sayid and get him on that flight, so we know that he wanted Sayid for some reason or another. Hurley was just as determined not to go and all it took was for Jacob to give him a little pep talk and guitar case.
I think that Sayid might have died in the 316 plane crash and that he is being inhabited/animated in the same way that Christian/Locke/Alex and possibly Clair are (although, perhaps, by Jacob and not TMIB).
This is one of the only ways that I can make sense of the fact that Sayid was forced onto 316 when it has been stated over and over again that everyone had to go back on their own free will. In the Lost game there are always consequences for breaking the rules.
I hope, actually, that season six proves me wrong on this one. This whole invasion of the body snatcher thing is all ready getting a bit much and I would hate for yet another character to be relegated to the undead.
Any other thoughts on why Sayid was forced onto the plane and what that means for him?
This began as a comment to the previous theory 'Ben's Pending Fate', but it became long enough that posting it as a comment was impossible.
Basically, here is my response to anyone who thinks, with one season remaining, in a show that has exposed itself as philosophical disagreement with two seemingly immortal, and opposed beings engaged in a protracted battle of wills that flight 815 will land, with little fanfare in LAX.
I'm not sure you understand how time-travel works.
Let's hypothetically say that Faraday's plan* was enacted, the Incident that caused the Swan station to be built, then have its button failed to be pushed by Desmond never dislodged 815's flight, then nothing in the entire series would have ever happened. Jack would bury his father, Kate would be off to jail, Sawyer would go on being a dejected con-man, Hurley would probably recommit himself, Sayid would meet up with Nadia and be happy, Sun and Jin would deliver the watch, see Sunset strip, and return to their miserable lives alongside the rest of the 815 crew.
On Island -- who knows? Ellie would never kill her time travelling son, so Daniel would grow up as a Hostile and maybe grow up to be the future leader to be. Ben would never get shot by Sayid, and then never be taken by Kate and Sawyer at Juliet's behest by Richard; though it doesn't rule out that Richard would stay true to his previous word that Ben could join the Others in due time. Whether or not Amy would successfully give birth to Ethan is moot as she would have been captured by the Hostiles before we could even wonder if Juliet's mad skills could be put to use. The outcome of Dharma's presence on the Island is up for debate. I've long argued that the Purge was a necessary, albeit tragic response to the fact that Dharma created The Tempest station [What would a seemingly benevolent utopian society need with a poison gas delivery system?] on par with Richard reluctantly "following orders" and killing off the US military presence that sought to detonate Jughead.
All this is unnecessary speculation on a hypothetical alternate history of the series, because everyone FAILS TO CONSIDER THE OPTION that if the Losties had never flashed, in two separate waves to 77 then Radzinsky's vainglorious dreams of 'utilizing electromagnetism is ways the world hasn't seen' would have resulted in what happened in the episode The Incident, just without the inclusion of any of the Losties.
All's well in Dharmaville, Dr. Chang is making more instruction videos, Horace would be a bachelor, and Phil would be head of Security, then BLAMMO! Radzinsky's mad science would tap into the electromagnetic pocket, everything would get sucked into the hole and quite possibly destroy the world. Maybe the latter part is wild speculation, but if we are to believe that if the 'world is saved' by the button being pushed carries any gravitas, then the incident would have been ruinous without the Losties presence. Maybe the bright minds at the Dharma initiative could have solved the problem on their own if they weren't in the midst of a perceived insurrection, sure. But considering it took Faraday, a man defined as a unique genius three years to come up with a solution, who himself had knowledge of the future [not to mention the constant urgings of Ms. Hawking to see that he realise his potential] it seems unlikely.
*Maybe Faraday was right, maybe there was a way to change the causality loop and prevent the events of the incident from ever happening. Alerting the de Groots of the dangers of Radzinsky's monomaniacal experiments would have probably been the easiest. But I would like to remind everyone that Faraday's plan was only enacted IN THEORY. If Faraday had the social skills to convince Richard to meet his mum to get her to go through with it all, gotten the core of Jughead, and convinced Chang on good faith to let him 'prevent' the incident [again, why didn't he just play the future card and get Chang or Horace to shut the experiment down?] then his hypothesis may have wrung true. Instead, he gets shot, Sayid arrives deus ex Machina** and after being shot in the stomach informs Jack that 'he can rig it so that it explodes on impact'. Call me cynical, but despite Sayid's numerous skills, and corroborated by the events that transpired, it would seem that a man who is bleeding to deat! h, working from the scribbled instructions of an eccentric didn't rig it too well -- evinced by Juliet having literally beat it with a rock to get it to go off.
**Is this a continuity error, or is Sayid somehow everywhere? He reappears after the events in He's Our You, presumably living off everyone's radar with the knowledge that 'Faraday's instructions were very clear'. How he knew this is beyond me, but if Sayid somehow was visited by Faraday, or eaves dropped something to the extent enough to prove how Faraday's plan had a limited window of opportunity, its clear that the Losties were a fraction of time outside of that window when Jughead's core went off. It's as Miles said, common sense 101, that they were creating the very incident they were hoping to prevent. He only erred when he said doing nothing was the best course of action.
This is quick, and it is isolated on only a few things. This is not a theory that looks at the big picture, just an interesting observation.
So! Before the crash of 815, we have the others, Bens crew living in Dharmaville. During this time Ben develops a tumor on his spine. His only hope for his survival was through a spinal surgeon that crashed with 815. We know him as Jack. Now Jack has just followed through with his plan of destroying the island with the H-bomb. If it works like Faraday explained, The Losties will never have landed on the island, and will arrive safely in LA. This creates a problem. If they never land on the Island, Ben never finds a cure, Jack never operates on him. Ben would die. Now I'm not quite sure how this would play out in the timeline, But in some alternate timeline Ben doesn't survive much past Season 3. Now if Ben is dead, Is he there to convince the others to come back to the Island? Or to kill John Locke only to be resurrected again? Most importantly, would Ben be around to be the one responsible for ultimatley killing Jacob? This situation may not directly affect the Losties, but it does affect the fate of the Island itself. Jacob never dies. Its another loophole.
In short, I think the operation performed by Jack on Ben will prove to be a pivotal moment in the timelines to come, depending on how things really play out in Season 6.
Anyone else think that Rose may actually be Desmond in the future? Yes, i know it sounds retarded at first, but just think about it. For one, they both have similar eyes. Look at the eyes. The eyes are always important. And the facial features, there is just something strangely similar about them despite the obvious gender and race difference.
Perhaps Desmond at some point loses Penny and little Charlie Hume and maybe Widmore captures him and, blaming him for Penny's death, injects him with some weird island shit that gives him the appearance and hormones of an African American woman. Sometime down the line he loses his memory and believes he is actually Rose, 50 year old black woman from the Bronx. And with all the time travel paradox crap, Rose/Desmond meets Bernard in 2003/2004 or whatever and marries him and gets on 815 and crashes on the island, where past Desmond is still back in the hatch. And now past Desmond and future/current Desmond (now Rose) both exist in the same timeline as a paradox. I know it's far-fetched but I just have this really strong feeling, and they HAVE given really subtle clues along the way. What do you guys think?
The very first moment we see Dan, he is crying and seems as if he has just woken up from a dream he can barely remember. The woman with him asks him why he's upset and he responds that he doesn't know. The moment that Dan is ultimately shot by his own mother Eloise Hawking, his mind consciousness-travels back to that first moment we met him. He is stuck in his own personal time loop. He gets shot, he goes back to the moment he first meets Charles Widmore, goes on the boat, goes to the island, goes back in time, gets shot by his mother, then does it all over again.
The Two John Lockes
It was made pretty obviously clear in "The Incident" that the John Locke we've been seeing walking around the island in 2007 was the same man we saw speaking with Jacob when the Black Rock was about to land on the island who is also Smokie. The real John Locke was dead inside the large metal box. I think that throughout the entire show we've seen both versions and didn't know the diference. This explains why Season 5's Smokie Locke is so similar to Season 1's badass hunter Locke, because sometimes in the previous seasons we were seeing real Locke and sometimes we were seeing Smokey Locke. I think we're going to see some flashbacks in the new season showing where real Locke was when Smokey LOcke blew up the submarine, the Flame station, knocked out Sayid, and killed Naomi.
Charlie Widmore
Penelope & Desmond's son Charlie, who is obviously named after Charlie Pace, is not only the grandson of Charles Widmore, but is also in fact Charles Widmore himself. At some point in the future Charlie Widmore (it doesn't seem that Penny & Demond have actually been married because they've been in hiding) goes to the island's past and joins Richard Alpert, then he leaves the island at some point and fathers his own mother, Penelope with another woman.
Relative Flashbacks
I think we'll see some of our dead Lostie's relatives/friends in their own flashbacks. How else, do you bring closure to the stories of Eko, Michael, and Charlie? Well, give us flashbacks of Yemi, Susan and Liam. It will also show us that these characters were the ones who helped bring the Losties to the island. They really were workers for either Ben or Widmore.
The True Job of The Others
In "The Brig" Richard tells John that he's tired of Ben wasting their time with stuff like fertility problems and that they need someone to remind them why they're really there. I think the island is essentially the center of the universe. And the job of the Others is to keep the universe in check. To ensure that time and space happens as it should. They are the policemen of the universe.
Two Sides, One Light, One Dark
The island is self aware and when the wheel is turned the island is consciousness-traveling. Jack, Kate, Sawyer & co are the island's constants and that's why they need to be there, to keep the island from time shifting. Jacob and the man in the black shirt (Smokey) are the island. They are two sides to the island's consciousness, one light, one dark. The island is essentially a symbol for religion. In any religion, there are two sides, one light, one dark. In the universe of this show, all religions originate from the island. Jacob and Smokey represent the creators and keepers of the universe, two sides of the same coin.
In the very first episode,and i mean the very first episode, Jack, Kate and Charlie go off to find the cockpit of the plane. They find the pilot still alive who then gets taken and killed by the smoke monster. Pretty much crapping themselves Jack , Kate and Charlie run away. Charlie trips up and gets his foot stuck so Jack goes back to help him, meanwhile Kate is still leggin it and soon finds herself all alone. Kate counts to five, opens her eyes and Charlie is stood in front of her. She wants to know where Jack is but Charlie say he dont know. Kate and Charlie go to look for him and all of a Sudden Jack comes out of the jungle as if nothing happened. So why did Jack leave Charlie? Where did he go? I reckon the smoke monster got him right back then in S1 E1!!! Yes i am mad but funny if true.
I think the man in black has been imprisoned in "Jacob's" cabin for a very long time. When Ben and Locke first made their trip to the cabin, Locke heard "Help me". I believe that was the beginning of MIB implementing his plan to take over Locke's body. Then we see Christian telling Locke what to do in "Cabin Fever" saying he speaks in Jacob's behalf, probably a lie. He is probably speaking for MIB, and setting into motion the events to get Locke off the island so Ben can kill him off island in the future, thus inhabiting his body when it returns. Why Claire was there I don't understand. Christian also tells him he has to die, how convenient. Also Christian tells Sun and Lapidus to wait in Dharmaville for John Locke. I'd have to rewatch a lot of episodes to look for more clues but these are what I remember right now. Feel free to look into this angle and elaborate.
P.S. I think Aaron will be brought back somehow, for some reason I think that he is or will become or is related to, Jacob. Walt is or will become or is related to MIB? White and Black?
I do not think that either Jacob or other man are or become smokie. I think that smokie is a seperate thing all together. Alot of people have metioned other guy using Locke's body. We know he didnt use Locke's body as it is on the big steel box. What I do think however is that everyone thought Locke was dead and therefore he used his persona to infiltrate the others so that he could get Ben to kill Jacob since he cannot. I also DO NOT think at all that this comes down in anyway as God vs Satan or any biblical people. I do not think the writer's would invoke the Bible or complete relegion into the show. Yes they reference it or we actually take things they say or do and refernce different books, stories and relegion. I do think that it is about destiny, faith vs science not good vs evil per say.
Season 1 Episode 2. On a beach just after the plane crash of oceanic 815 sit two people, John Locke and Walt. John tells Walt of a game thats over 5000yrs old, a game thats between (LIGHT vs DARK) its the oldest game of them all John goes on to tell Walt. Ok, so John is talking about backgammon, or is he.....are we being told something about the key subject of LOST right at the very begining of it all. I know its not a theory, just an observation, but something i thought you all might like.
I’ve read about Jacob representing White and The Man in Black (TMIB) representing Black. While I agree that these are the two parties “playing the game,” I don’t necessarily agree that White=Good and Black=Evil.
As someone posted in a recent theory and as I noticed watching the Incident, what Jacob did was involve a lot of people in a very dangerous game. He bought Kate the lunchbox instead of letting her face a punishment that might have made her a better person. He gave Sawyer the pen where Sawyer might have moved on with his life rather than being hung up on revenge. I mean, Sawyer wound up killing an innocent man (the Shrimp guy).
At the start of the episode, TMIB indicates that Jacob brought the ship to the island. Jacob makes no denial. To me, TMIB simply appears frustrated at Jacob’s repeated attempts to prove a point—to win the game. It seems pretty clear that TMIB wants nothing to do with these games. He is an involuntary player. Think about that for a moment, what if TMIB is an entity who has absolutely no interest in this game? Jacob draws people (pieces) in and, as TMIB clearly indicates, it always ends the same—all the valuable pieces are wiped off the table. I see it as they either end in a draw (neither side having any players left, neither capable of striking the decisive blow) or maybe Black has always won. But after each game, much like a child, Jacob is looking to get that one win. So he initiates the game again by drawing in new pieces (people). Now, that doesn’t sound too “good” to me. I wouldn’t want to be one of those pieces who have historically been wiped off the boa! rd. It also doesn’t sound too fair—Jacob gets to choose the pieces (people). Seems a little one-sided.
Anyway, after so many games, TMIB has had it. He doesn’t want to play anymore. If you had to play the same game over and over for eternity, wouldn’t you want to kill the person who kept making you play?
Don’t think TMIB is being forced to play? What about the hieroglyphics where the smoke monster judged Ben. Didn’t it appear to show Anubis summoning the Smoke Monster? If Jacob represents Anubis (pretty fair bet since he lives in the Statue) and TMIB represents Smokie, it seems to me that Jacob summoned TMIB. I think he summoned him to play this game and won’t leave TMIB alone until one side wins.
Maybe, years and years ago, they developed the rules—no forcing anyone to do anything (free will and all), no killing the other player. Maybe even no killing yourself. Man, TMIB is totally trapped.
I also think this has to do with what happened to the Frenchies (Danielle’s group). I think TMIB decided to just start wiping pieces off the board. He didn’t want to play anymore so he just started killing pieces (people). Jacob messed with the rifle though and Danielle stayed in the game…for a while.
What’s happening right now? Well, when TMIB got Ben to kill Jacob (his loophole), he thought he had finally won. But death does not exactly end the game. These pieces are capable of making their own decisions and, alive or dead, Jacob has his own plan to win the game. For Season 6, Jacob’s pieces are on their own.
The point of this theory is not to predict what will happen next season though. My point is that I don’t think White and Black translate to Good and Evil. Like Lapidus said, the people who say they are the good guys usually turn out to be the opposite. Like the fish he captures and mercilessly cuts open for himself to eat, Jacob repeatedly brings pieces (people) to the island for himself.
Ilana asks, "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" Richard answers something like, "He who will save us all." I think "lies" is the key word. Jacob lies. He has likely brainwashed many of the pieces into thinking this is a battle of good vs. evil. But he LIES. This is a just a game between two opposing players. All the pieces (People) are expendable on Jacob's quest to win.
This has probably been mentioned a thousand times some place or another but i just wanted to have my input brought into light. This theory holds tight resemblence to the stories of the hebrew bible. Jacob and Esau (AJ, Darky, Smokey, Black Shirt Man... call him what you will) are twin brothers, sons of isaac (more later). one is good (Jacob) one is bad (Esau). Each have been fighting each other since they were in their mothers womb, and were sworn to fight each other for the rest of their lives: when one fell, the other would rise, and vice versa. Esau was seen to be a hunter "a man of the field" (smokey is pretty much the hunter on the island) whilst jacob was viewed as a dweller and a simple man.
Now onto Isaac, cast your minds back to season 2 and the episode S.O.S. Rose and bernard in Australia goto see a healer for roses cancer, his name was isaac. Now although i believe his character not to play a vital role in the show i think its important that it is recognised as a reference to the hebrew bible theme. Isaac basically told rose that this island (Auz) didnt have enough magnetic power for her healing and would need to find somewhere stronger (my money is on he knew, but i digest)
Also jacob and esau died at the age of 147 2007-147=1860 (black rock time?)
"he gets marched up into here as if he was moses" Ben speaking about Locke to Jacob. this got me thinking about FLocke/Lockes character
Similaritys between locke and moses: - Fostered - both died before reaching their destination island/ israel - Leader of men
I know this is really disjointed but it just seems to have a strong connection to the show. For Season 6 anyway: - Jack = new jacob - jack vs locke (mirror of season 1) - aaron to turn out to be the end of the loop "blaanace to the force" of the island after jack n locke die.
Flight 815 wasn't supposed to crash. In fact, it seems like a number of the survivors weren't even suppose to be on the plane; Jack, Sun, Jin, Hurley, and Sayid barely made it on to the flight. The universe was attempting to keep them from getting on the plane. Jack was held up at customs, Sun was supposed to leave Jin and walk out of the airport, Sayid was detained by security, and Hurley's bad luck almost caused him to miss the flight. Unfortunately, they all boarded the plane and it crashed.
In season 5, Farraday claims that the survivors can use the H-bomb in combination with the Swan Station's electro-magnetic forces, to make it so that Flight 815 never crashes. After much convincing, they do so. The show ends with a surge of white light. What happens after that? They achieve their goal, and none of them crash on the island on Flight 815, because they were never supposed to.
They were, however, supposed to come to the island eventually, on Ajira Flight 316. The oceanic six have been living their normal lives without any interruption in 2004, through the present. In 2007, they all end up on the Ajira flight, which crashes on the island.
In the Pilot episode of the series, when Jack wakes up in the jungle, the expressions on his face are strange, demonstrating a feeling of near-deja vu. This suggests that the survivors will return to the island after the flash of white light in much the same manner as they originally arrived there. This time, however, they will be profoundly altered in one of two ways: either a conscious or subconscious memory of past events which allows them to act in a a more productive and informed manner, or a character alteration according to Jacob's involvement in their lives. Perhaps Kate will have ceased running due to the influence of Jacob's lesson, Jack will have more confidence in his own abilities, Sayid will have found Nadia no longer carry the guilt of torturing, etc.
The survivors will come to the island in the manner that they were ultimately supposed to have arrived. The universe will have course-corrected to set the stage for the final island showdown.
This theory was first proposed in late season 3, and then refined by the events of the season 5 finale. It is a collaborative effort between AVREY_97, D'zle, and Losty09.
I have been away for a while so if this has been said im sorry.
Just like the man in black has been looking for a loophole I think Jacob has been just in case he would need one. I think That his loophole will be the losties that were in 2007.
i have been a believer in whh until i started thinking about this theory. I think the losties have always went back in time to the dharma initative but they changed something this time. I think that this is the first time that they have detonated Jughead. When they did this i think it made a pocket and is going to send them in time to 07.
When Richard said that he saw them all die he was right and will be just as surprised when he sees them 30 years later in the future.
jacob will use Locks body to come back to life and will convince the losties to kill the man in black and set things right on the island.
I have been thinking about the “soft spots” or pockets to which Eloise Hawking referred. I created a poll about this which will appear if it is chosen, but then thought it might deserve a theory.
Perhaps there are “soft spots’ in various places around the world. In fact, some of the odd things that have appeared on the island may because creatures have fallen through these soft spots.
Thoughts:
We have seen the observation station in the Arctic. What if the polar bears “fell through”?
We have seen a cow, could it have fallen through from maybe Iowa?
Could the tank in which Jack was imprisoned be the previous home of a marine animal that fell through a soft spot in the ocean?
Maybe the Black Rock came through the same way?
Maybe the Hurley bird came through a spot in the sky – like an airplane?
Maybe the DI did not bring animals with them to the Hydra station, but instead brought the animals they found on the island to the “zoo” to study where they came from and how the travel affected them?
Maybe getting into the submarine has nothing to do with actually leaving the island, but instead is used so that people on the submarine can be knocked out and taken through a soft spot, maybe in ocean floor?
Could the temple be a central access to these pockets?
Many have argued that Jacob was goading Ben or somehow being antagonistic towards him. I don't think it's that simple. I posit that Jacob was not being a dick at all, and his "what about you" response actually reflects the central conflict of free will versus determinism.
If you remember, Ben ranted at Jacob portraying himself as a victim. But what is a victim? It is one whose fate is determined negatively by the actions of someone else. In other words, a victim is the antithesis of what Jacob stands for, namely free will. So, rather than engage with Ben in his deterministic "I am a victim" argument, Jacob responded with a simple question that underlines that Ben's fate was determined by Ben's choices. "What *about* you" was saying that BEN, not Jacob, has to provide the answer and resulting actions, that the ball was in Ben's court.
Back in season 4, off Island, Alpert visiting 5y old Locke ;Richard must have found John Locke at least a little special, since he drew smokie as a child. He also chooses the sand and the knife, which ARE already his. If Alpert was looking for some sort of reincarnation, he was wrong. But the test results made perfect sense. Locke is gonna become locke, and he already knew it deep down inside him.
If you wanna go further on this road, you can also assume that it was the same knife who would later kill Jacob. But i don’t think so.We know Locke will become a knife collector several years later.
So what does this mean ?.Could he be a reincarnation ? Of Jacob, or Anti Jacob ? Or was he always possessed by the anti Jacob? Or has he some recollections of his future life (which happened in a past when he wasn’t even born ?Sounds like a stretch to me.
What are the rules of the test ? What was Richard expecting ? Was he looking for the spirit of Jacob ? the Book of laws seemed important, so he was looking for a Ruler.
And as it happened, we saw that Locke wasn’t much of a good leader. He was more like a dictator, and more reacting than thinking. He never had the chance to lead for more than 10 minutes before time shifting. But when he came back (as Anti Jacob), the position of leader was still opened.
That leads me to another important point that I don’t fully understand : Richard doesn’t seem to understand what happenend to Locke during those 3 years. « You just disappeared ». But he saw him do the same thing back in 1954, and he can’t put the pieces together ? Either Alpert is dumb, either he’s playing a role, or he has been fooled, but I don’t think so, because he seems to get orders directly from Jacob.
And how could Richard have been fooled by the Anti Jacob ? I think the answer to that question leaves in the shadow of the Temple. Who’s temple is it ? At this point, we can only speculate. I think the Temple is just for Smokey, and both of our semi-gods have access
Last point about Christian being anti Jacob : we don’t know when AJ took the body of Locke. Where was he when Lapidus and Sun talked to Christian ?If he was already in Locke’s body, then Christian is just Christian. I don’t think he can be both at the same time. Others theories mentionned the black and white shoes. This could explain why Christian sent Vincent to wake up Jack. I think a lot of this mess will be cleared when we’ll know more about the Shephard connection.
Lost is an adult version of Disney's Atlantis animated movie series -1) Shepards Journal - versus Daniel's journal that contains all the information that they know and the blackrock journal which leads them to the island.
2) There is a group that survive a submarine crash that kills 200 people and about 5 main characters and a pet much like our core group of the O5'ers.
3) There is a loki (in NOrse lore it was the mistletoe that provided the loophole that allowed the Norse god to be killed).
4) The loki sets loose the balltle of two gods - one fire and one ice but both evil who battle for who will be the survivor when the use the energy of atlantis to c reate genesis again.
5) the island has special powers due to a secret energy held in stones/crystals.
6) there are smoke monsters in form of smoke coyotes that keep secret the knowledge that Atlantis provided to the outside world before its disappearance among them the knowledge of Egypt.
7) There is a union of men of faith and men of science who disagree with how to use the power of the crystals.
8) You can only reach the island by submarine or after the crystal is remvoed from under the island via a special elevator shaft.
9) there are whispers (not really explained in the movie thoughh or I didn't catch what they were)
10) the island chooses who it wants to be leader but they ahve to be of royal blood.
11) the sub has a hydra communication station
12) THe island is in decline from its original glory until helped by the ousside (similar to the Dharma villages and technology)
13) they have an eternal never aging character in the return movie but he forgot to ask for eternal youth so he is not a child but an older man.
14) The power source was hidden underneath the island temple chambers and had to be released to save the islanders.
As well all know, in the later series, there has been a lot of emphasis on Locke being 'special' and the one who can fix everything. But, if we look over the events that make him special, we can clearly see that he isn't special at all. Firstly, we saw in a flashback that Richard visited Locke as a child. Immediately we all think 'wow' but in a later episode, when the losties were flashing between times, we discover that Locke TOLD Richard to visit him. Similarly, Locke was mysteriosuly found byRichard in the jungle, and told he had to bring the Oceanic 6 back to the island, altough, in the last episodes, e find out that this, also, was something Locke told Richard to do. Fianlly, we have the whole 'Locke's broken back being cured' which happenned in season 1. Yet, if you remember back, he was not the only one who was healed - Rose also was suffering from cancer, and she made a recovery. So, this leads to the obvious question, just how special is John Locke? In my opinion, not very.
jacob and esau represent white and black, good and evil and they can shapeshift and take different forms of the deceased they also are the smoke monster , esau is the black smoke monster and jacob is the white one ( locke described the monster as beautiful and remember the monster flashing white when kate and juliet were tied together.)Jacob also took the form of christian shepard and led jack to the caves so the survivors could survive. now neither took walts form that was walts phsyic abilities and he tried to warn everyone such as shannon and sayid.
locke was the destined leader of the others esau has known that for a while in the season 1 finale he tried to take him in the smoke monster form to kill him and take his form and trick everyone just like in the incident however his plan was stopped by the dynamite. Remember how shocked locke was after and this was because he met jacobs smoke monster. Now this leads on to esaus plan he had formed and now in the incident succeeded by it. Esau some how took over jacobs cabin and when locke visited it esau knew he was a fool and believed in destiny, he said he represented jacob in the form of christian and said that locke needed to push the wheel this was to stop any others coming to the island ( remember esau in the opening scene of the incident saying that jacob lured people to the island.)
Then when the losties were jumping through time he told locke in the form of christian that he would have to die, and also in the incident he told richard to tell real locke in the form of locke to say he would have to die, this made sure that locke believed this was fate because richard is the islands "advisor". Locke died and came back to the island because of jack thats why esau said theyd have to come back because they would bring dead locke back. So bringing him back he shapeshifted in to locke and manipulated ben and killed jacob.
That isnt all in season 4 he took the form of christian lured claire away in an attempt to kill aaron just like jacob ,aaron can not be killed by esau for some reason. he then killed claire took her form and visited kate off island yes if jacob can leave the island why cant esau and said do not bring him back and this is because aaron is a threat he is the only one who can now defeat esau or fake locke. But however jacob knew that esau would find a loop hole and succeed in killing him thats why he didnt resist or anything but.. he has a plan he touched jin sun kate jack sawyer sayid and hurley because they are the gifted ones they will find a way to defeat esau and when jacob says they are coming he means the losites stuck in dharma time.
Richard Alpert is working for Jacob’s Nemesis. Motive: Jacob made Richard his advisor, thus locking him into eternal struggle with the Nemesis. The Nemesis wants out of this eternal struggle and has convinced Richard to assist him. However, the Nemesis does not give Richard all the information of his plan, thus effectively keeping Richard in the dark and securing the Nemesis’ plans. Richard is therefore made all the more easier to control. In the grand chess game of the show, Jacob is the White King, the Nemesis is the Black King, with Richard as his Queen. Ben is only a pawn in their game.
Let’s look at the facts: Richard was the leader of the Others in 1954. Met with Locke, pretending not to know him (just as he assumed Locke would pretend not to know him when they “first” met in 2004). Locke gives Richard the compass, thus setting in motion the chain of events that will lead to Richard giving Locke the compass. The compass may be a sign from the Nemesis, who is using Locke as his pawn. Locke says he was sent by Jacob, perhaps another sign. Locke tells Richard to meet him in the future. Richard needs convincing that Locke is the Nemesis, however. When visiting Young Locke, he presents him with the compass and a vial of sand, which belong to the Nemesis. When Locke chooses the knife (a symbol of Jacob’s eventual murder weapon?) rather than the Book of Laws, Richard grows angry and leaves the room. Richard attempts one last time to draw Locke to the island by recruiting him through Mittelos, but this fails to interest Locke. The reason Richard later tells Jack in 1977 that he did not find Locke all that “special” is because he was expecting him to be the Others leader, whom the Nemesis likely told Richard would be the person they would recruit to kill Jacob. Jack tells Richard not to “give up on Locke.”
Three years earlier, in 1973, Ben sees his mother’s apparition, much like Eko saw Yemi’s, Ben saw Alex’s and Jack saw Christian’s. We now know that what they were seeing was an embodiment of the Nemesis, just like the Smoke Monster, who sometimes accompanied these sightings (particularly in the case of Eko and later Ben). Ben then meets up with Richard, who just happens to be around the same location that Ben’s mother is seen. Richard is quite interested that Ben has seen the ghost of someone who died of the island, for it shows the Nemesis’ progress; little does Richard know that someday the Nemesis will be appearing in the flesh of the dead. Richard is drawing Ben to their triumvirate with which they will destroy Jacob. The apparition tells Ben it was “not yet time,” and Richard tells him he needs “to be very patient.”
Back in 1977, Kate and Sawyer bring Richard the nearly lifeless body of Ben. Richard takes Ben to the Temple (the same location Ben would later encounter the Smoke Monster). Ben tells Sayid and Kate Ben will be “one of us,” meaning one of the “Others” or in cahoots with the Nemesis (meaning so, too are Sawyer and Kate?). Widmore finds out and yells at Richard that he should not have done that. Richard lies and says that it is what Jacob wants. How is Widmore to argue? No one is allowed to see Jacob except Richard, who is an “advisor.” The Nemesis is taking advantage of this position in that he can use Richard to speak on his own behalf, pretending to speak on the part of Jacob. This was the “right” time for Ben to be made part of the Nemesis’ game plan. Later, Faraday arrives at their camp. Richard knows Faraday is going to tell them about the bomb, that is what he was there for last time they met. Ellie shoots Faraday in the back, which visibly upsets Richard, for he knows what this will lead to. Ellie wants to help Jack and Sayid to stop herself from again killing her son. Richard cannot stop her, as she is the leader and that would raise suspicion, so he uses the excuse of her pregnancy to knock her out cold, hoping against hope that Jack and Sayid will not succeed.
Later, after the “incident,” Ben resists Jacob by keeping Alex rather than killing her. Richard does nothing to intercede. The Nemesis wants Ben as leader because he will be easy to control. His ejects Widmore from the island for breaking the “rules.” Widmore argues that if the island wants her dead, she’ll be dead, and Ben will be cast out. Ben is effectively made leader in Widmore’s absence. He has sold his right to leadership by lying to the Others, by saying he has spoken to Jacob when he has not and by saying he was born on the island when he was not. Richard could intercede but he does not. In fact, he tells Ben that Widmore’s sub is leaving, giving Ben a chance to gloat. Ben’s first major move, after Widmore leaves, is to destroy the Dharma Initiative, whom Jacob brought to the island (much like he brought the Black Rock years before; this also explains the connection between the Hanso of the Black Rock and the Hanso Foundation behind the Dharma Initiative).
Ben’s next major project, the “pregnancy issue,” with which he enlists Richard (and as Richard professes to Locke when they meet in 2004, there are “more important” matters they need to deal with – like killing Jacob, perhaps?), due to Ben’s own mother dying in child birth and the island’s refusal to allow successful procreation on the island. Which begs the question, were Daniel and Ethan conceived on the island? If not, then didn’t Eloise break the “rule”? Maybe this is why she is no longer on the island? Maybe Ben instituted the “rule” about getting pregnant off island, or maybe Jacob did. Perhaps the island’s populace must be brought from outside, by Jacob. (I note also that Jacob lives underneath a statue of Tawaret, an Egyptian goddess of fertility). By solving this problem, the Nemesis could find a loophole for stopping the island’s need for people and could put a stop to Jacob drawing those from the outside, whom the Nemesis professes to hate because of their failings. Then, the Nemesis could end their game and live in peace with the island-born selected few. The island reacts to Ben’s actions by giving him cancer (while it heals others of the same problem, namely Rose). Ben knows something is up: he has not heard from Jacob and he now has cancer. Perhaps he suspects Widmore and Eloise have also never spoken to Jacob? Or is it that discussion with Jacob always occurs through an intermediary, namely Richard?)
The Nemesis has found a highly effective agent in Ben, who is prone to violent, irrational behavior (as with Goodwin and Widmore). Furthermore, Ben asking Locke to kill his father is very similar to Locke asking Ben to kill Jacob. Perhaps Ben was the Nemesis’ first attempt to kill Jacob but then he realized that Jacob was on to Ben, which is why Ben never saw Jacob? Ben takes Locke to see Jacob at his cabin, or at least what he thinks is Jacob. It is clear later, that Ben is only pretending, that Jacob is not in the cabin, and never was, at least not for Ben. As Locke begins to leave, a voice says “help me.” This is the Nemesis’ voice. Ben does not hear this, it is meant for Locke only, to make Locke believe he is special and to make Ben feel left out (which the Nemesis can use to his advantage later). Ben is only a pawn, after all, who needs to know only his small part of the board, whereas Locke needs to see more of the board (more on this alter). The Nemesis does not want to be seen however, as evidenced by his reaction to John’s flashlight. Possibly this is because Ben or Locke would describe him to Richard and the Nemesis, as we will see, wants to keep him in the dark, too. When Locke tells Ben Jacob’s words “help me,” Ben is hurt because he believes he is helping Jacob. The truth is he is helping Jacob’s Nemesis.
Ricahrd is “concerned” about what happened to Locke because, though he is in the dark about all the Nemesis’ moves (seeing only part of the game and not the whole board), he understands Locke’s importance, beginning with Locke not remembering Ricahrd soon after Locke is first introduced to the Others. Richard quickly tells Locke that Ben wanted Locke to fail at killing his father because Ben wanted to look good in the eyes of his people, who are possibly beginning to question Ben’s motives (as in, what’s with this pregnancy thing, anyway, and why are we living in the Dharma village?). Richard knows Ben is an illegitimate leader, but must maintain the illusion in order to fool Jacob. Richard tells Locke that there are more important issues than fertility, meaning that Ben is pursuing a goal contrary to what Jacob wants. Perhaps he is giving Locke a hint that Ben is manipulable? Maybe Richard thinks Locke is playing dumb?
When the Others come under attack by the Freighter folk, Ben orders Richard to take the Others to the Temple, ostensibly the “last safe place on the island.” This is the same place Richard took Ben for his “transformation” which upset Widmore. Have the Others been transformed as well? Are they unknowingly in the pawns of the Nemesis? Ben cannot let the survivors leave the island (as he so passionately protests to Alex) because he fears they might fall under the control of Widmore, or Jacob himself, as Jacob contacts Sayid and Hugo, and Widmore with Sun (actually, she contacts him.) No, it is best for the Nemesis’ plan if the survivors remain on the island, where they are more easily manipulated, and under Smoky’s watchful eye. Ben was prepared to kill everyone rather than allow them to escape, as is evidenced by his rigging the Tempest station. The freighters want to stop Ben. Perhaps Jacob let Widmore know that he suspected Ben needed to be stopped? Maybe Jacob knows the Nemesis’ endgame? (Maybe this is why he appears to let it happen).
Harper’s appearance to Juliet is significant, more significant, I think, than anyone suspects as it, more than Richard and his mother’s ghost appearing close together, illustrates how far in cahoots Ben is with the Nemesis (though, again, he has no idea). The Nemesis wanted Ben to succeed in releasing the toxic gas at the Tempest, disposing of the freighters and survivors just as Ben disposed of the Dharma initiative. The Nemesis as Harper is pretending to act on behalf of Ben because the Nemesis is actually controlling Ben. As further proof of the collusion between Ben and the Nemesis (whom he believes is Jacob), look no further than the “Smoky Control Booth” accessed from Ben’s Dharma home, a booth Ben uses to bring forth the Smoke Monster to attack Keamy and his men. (As an aside, I think Horace Goodspeed, whose house this originally was, and who built the cabin, may also be working for the Nemesis, whether or not he knows it. He was there, after all, when Ben’s mother died, and he brought Ben’s father to the island. That his house has an expressway to Smokyville does not speak well of his intentions, either.)
Ben and Locke promptly go to visit “Jacob” in the Cabin. Hurley, who tellingly knows where the cabin “is” (and thus is quite useful to the real Jacob), leads them there, but first Locke meets Horace Goodspeed, then building the famed cabin. Is this the Nemesis? Probably. Goodspeed tells Locke where to look and they find a schematic in the pocket of his dead body. (I note that the ONLY time the Nemesis has appeared in an apparition form to someone who DID NOT KNOW THE PERSON WHO THE NEMESIS IS APPEARING is to John Locke. Significant? Probably. The two occasions are Goodspeed and Christian Shepard; both times helped to further Locke along his path toward killing Jacob; yes, even Christian Shepard. Shepard, after all, told him to move the island and to look up Eloise Hawking, two events which would have serious repercussions. Moving the island changes the game plan; sort of like moving the game pieces in such a way that undermines the game.
When Ben is eventually rescued by the Others, Ricahrd says “my pleasure,” in such a way that it is clearly NOT his pleasure. Ricahrd knows Ben is not the leader, not a servant of Jacob, but merely a pawn of the Nemesis. He knows Locke is the leader, the Nemesis’ chosen one, though he is unconvinced. This is the reason he appears so hopeful when Locke assumes control of the Others at the end of season four. Then Locke disappears as Ben moves the island from the Orchid station. (Why the Others don’t go skipping through time is beyond me; maybe this is what the “List” is all about.) Those Sayid is assassinating on behalf of Ben are part of the Jacob-Widmore-Bram-Ilana group. (Further evidence Bram-Ilana are working for Widmore: Tom says to Michael “we’re the good guys,” so, too, does Bram to Frank. What confuses this is why Bram tells Miles not to get on Widmore’s ship. Maybe reverse-psychology?) This is why Ilana is messed up in a hospital; it’s a failed assassination attempt, though it is probably not Sayid doing the assassinating, or Ben for that matter, as they would have probably recognized her. Ivan, I do note, however, was assassinated by Ssayid in Moscow, and Jacob was speaking Russian to Ilana. Abbadon is also clearly working for Widmore, and not for the Nemesis. This is obvious, as he is interested in Hurley (so, too is Jacob). Abbadon’s interaction with Locke pre-island is similar to Eloise pushing Faraday, or Jacob touching Kate, Jack, Sawyer and, again, Locke. Abbadon’s appearance to Hurley shows Hurley’s importance to Jacob, again, and obviously, he is the one who enlisted the freighter folk. Ben kills Abbadon because, again, he does not want Widmore interfering with them (nor does the Nemesis want Jacob to interfere).
It might be helpful here to break down who is in cahoots with who:
JACOB-WIDMORE-HAWKING-ILANA/BRAM-ABBADON vs. NEMESIS-ALPERT-BEN
Ben, not knowing that Locke must die to become the Nemesis, but knowing that Locke is important, attempts to talk him out of it. Yet the Nemesis, knowing Ben’s behavior, knows Ben will kill Locke if Eloise gets involved, as Eloise is working for Jacob (whether she knows it or not). So the Nemesis tells Locke, in the form of Christian Shepard, to look Eloise up when he gets mainland. When Locke suggests they see her, this sends Ben over the top, because he knows Eloise is not to be trusted, she wants to control the island, so, too does Widmore, and allowing her to interfere would risk Ben’s control of the island (it would also risk the Nemesis’ plan). So there, you have it, Locke is dead. Now, they need only get him on the plane, along with as many of the Oceanic Six as possible. Part of the rules, no doubt. The Nemesis wants Dead Locke on board. Eloise goes along with it because she understands the need to have him there. The pieces are in place. Both Ben and Eloise are perhaps unwitting pawns of the Nemesis and Jacob. Jacob especially wants Hurley on the island, and the Nemesis especially wants Locke. Hurley perhaps senses Ben's role as betrayer as he is visibly upset that Ben is getting on the plane.
Ben is shocked to see a living Locke on the island. Christian, as the Nemesis, tells Sun and Frank to wait for Locke. Ben intends on being judged by the Smoke Monster. Aha! Smokey resides in the Temple. Dead giveaway as to Ben's/Richard's allegiances. Locke now knows when and where Smokey will appear. He disappears when Smokey appears in the Temple. The monster judges Ben, tells him to do whatever Locke tells him. Now the Nemesis has set the board for endgame. His pawn is ready to attack. Now to bring in his Dark Horse, Richard.
Locke takes Sun and Ben to the Others camp. Ben tells Sun Richard is an "advisor." Richard tells Locke that Jacob made him "this way" (i.e. ageless). The descriptions of Alpert (in that we find out more about him in a matter of minutes than in the past 5 years of the show) is carefully timed. For it tells us Jacob made him ageless and an intermediary between Jacob and the Others. When Locke announces he wants to meet Jacob, Richard says that Locke is "dangerous." Richard knows full well, because he now realizes that the Nemesis has finally succeeded. Richard does not know how, but begins to have some idea when Ben tells him he kileld Locke (just as Richard took an interest in Ben telling him in 1973 that he saw his dead mother - the Nemesis has managed to advance in the past twenty thirty four years, so that where in 1973 he learned to inhabit the thoughts of the living now in 2007 he has learened to inhabit the bodies of the dead.)
When Locke takes Richard to meet the living Locke to give him instructions and the compass, the Dead Locke is essentially ending (and beginning) the chain of events in a very, very "long con" in which Richard and Ben have been (in varying degrees, Ben moreso than Richard) unknowing accomplices and Jacob the dupe. Richard wants to assist the Nemesis to end his immortality, but in order for the Nemesis' plan to be totally effective, no one could know the full game, not even Richard. Richard, like Locke, Ben and all the rest, is another player. Not a pawn, though, more like a Queen. His half-hearted protest to the Nemesis that only one person at a time is allowed into the Temple may be for show, or it may be his fear that he is wrong, that Locke is not the Nemesis and that they run the risk of ruining this one attempt at end game and thus screwing up Richard's chance for freedom. When the Nemsis says, "I'm beginning to think that you make these rules up as you go along," it may be an indication that Locke's lines are rehearsed, a code, whereby the Nemesis gives Richard his final proof that he has succeeded.
Richard opens Jacob's crypt. The Nemesis and Ben have Jacob in checkmate, cornered. The Nemesis steps back and allows things to play out as he knew they would, confident in his success. When Bram and Ilana show up outside with Locke's body, Richard feins surprise, perhaps, as he does not want them to know he was in on it. Someone, however, did know the Nemesis' plan: Jacob. And he appears to have let it play out, so that the Nemesis would think he has won. Something tells me that "They're coming," refers not to Ilana or Bram or even to the survivors back in '77. It may refer to someone else entirely: Walt? Aaron? Yi Jeon? The latter two, unlike anyone else that we know of (except perhaps Faraday), were born on the island. Does that give them some magical purpose or power?
Ok... So I know there is lots of Therories on here on the Black and White good vs Evil....And it all seems very predictable that, that is what the writers want you to think. But did we ever really think that Jacob had a brother or whatever he is. And that he would take form of a dead persons body and kill Jacob??? So here is my Therory.....
Never judge a book by its cover. Never judge someone by what he/she wears. Judgement is something we all face everyday and fear. So why not look at some things that we are so easy to judge on the Jacob, and Black shirted dude.
Jacob catches a fish, cuts it up and eats it, he offers it to the other dude, and he says he already ate. At this point they seem friendly towards each other, and its not till the end of the conversation we learn Black Shirt Dude want Jacob dead. Jacob seems very smug about this. Almost cocky about it. They knew in the beginning a ship was coming in Jacob "I'm guessing your here cause of the ship" Dude "I am, How'd they find the Island?" Jacob "Guess you'll have to ask when they get here" Dude "I don't have to ask, YOU brought them here. They come they fight, they corupt, they destroy... It always ends the same" Jacob "You are wrong" Dude" Am I" Jacob "it only ends once anything before that is just progress"
Key YOU brought them here... I replayed this many times and he says YOU refering to Jacob. Why would Jacob want them here to Corupt and destroy the Island? Black shirt dude, I think wants to save the Island. He probably dies in doing so to protect it. He thinks Like John Lock about the Island, and beleives in it and wants to save it from people on the outside world. This is why he wants Jacob dead, cause after he has fought for it so long, Jacob never steps up and defends it physically. He instead, hides away in the temple lonley and allows people to believe that He controls how the Island thinks when really, he just wants it to end. Like Jack. Why hide away in a temple and not fight for something, that YOU brought here. You brought it here to be destroyed and allow the black shirt dude to fight for it? Even when the losties show, at least Black shirt guy is still working on the Island to make things happen, to kill Jacob who does nothing to save it. Of course it makes him look bad or evil, but what is Jacob doing hiding away what good is that doing allowing it all to happen.
This also makes me think about John and Jack. Jack wanted to bring the people in the freighter there to be rescued, while Jack tried at all cost to prevent it knowing it would go bad. Jack left the Island when John told him to stay and fight for it, only in the end for Jack to come back, and John to die.
So why did'nt black shirt dude, just go in the temple and kill Jacob? I'm sure he had plenty of chances. This is why there is the Cabin surrounded by ash. Jacob also hid here, and made it known that the ash if crossed would cause a curse. Therefore since everyone think Jacob speak for the island they all believe it. Black shirt dude knows its a lie but still does'nt cross it knowing that is not how he will kill him.
I think in season 6 you will see Black shirt dude, fighting for the Island to preserve it, while Jacob stands back and does nothing. Black shirt dude is looking for the loophole to kill Jacob so he can save the Island from Jacob bringing people there to corupt it. Is that so evil??? He fights for his land his home, while Jacob cowardly hides away.... and remember Jacob brought them there.
